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I may give Rhode Island a go at something like this.
"trek7k" wroteGotcha – so the RTP money will go to general transportation funding if the bill is successful.
I am not 100% sure of that, but that has always been the plan in other years in which the right has come after the RTP. Oh yea, the RTP renewal is never easy. It always gets challenged and spends time on the chopping block.
"trek7k" wrote[Thanks for the background info Bill. Showing my ignorance a bit more here…
So if the money has to go to trails by law, who is trying to take this money away from mountain bike trails? The ATV users? I guess I don’t understand who stands to benefit from stripping the money if it doesn’t go back into the general federal budget and has to be spent either way… Do the ATV and snowmobile guys have better lobbyists than us?
No, the ATV and snowmobiles are aligned with other members of the trail family fighting to keep the funding in the RTP. The rule that says 30% of the money has 2b spent on motorized trails is inside of RTP……if RTP is defunded this rule goes away along with the money and the entire $85M reverts to other transportation spending.
We are not fighting amongst the trail users for the $85M at this time. We are all on the same team trying to keep the $85M in funding for trails. If the RTP survives, then the grants are written and scored and in that process, we are competing for funding.
Who is trying to take the money? The bill that will strip RTP funding has been submitted by Rep Steve King, a republican house member from Iowa. In my years of following this issue, I believe it is the more conservative members of our congress who have voted to strip the RTP funding. I believe it is their desire to see this funding spent on roads instead of trails. Pay down the debt……not so much.
RTP is funded with the 18 cents per gallon that is paid at the pump by vehicles that expend the fuel on a trail. I am not sure how the total is calced, but it is estimated that over $300 Million is collected. $85M or so is then spent on trails. By law, 30% of the total must be spent on motorized trails (because they pay 100% of the bill).
Your income taxes do not fund the RTP.
Your gas taxes that go into your car that you drive to the trail does not fund the RTP.
Snowmobiles, ATV, motocycles (off road) and (off road) Jeeps fund the RTP.I agree our country has a bad deficit. But I don’t think the stripping of the these funds is going to lower the deficit. The $85M will be taken from the RTP and it will be spent on paved roads like the $215M in off road fuel taxes are now.
I’d say FATS will pay for itself. How? I now ride with a guy who I didn’t know 4 years ago. He didn’t ride before FATS, but he was fat! He told he lost 30 pounds and bought himself a MTB. Started going to FATS, and it changed his life. He is now 50, fit, and beats me back to the car most of time.
How much would he have cost medicare in the coming years had he not gotten fit? How much does it cost to treat one heart attack? Now think about the hundreds of people who share this story….just at FATS. Now think about the thousands around the country at other trails. I believe it is cheaper to build trails and have a fitter populace than building hospitals to care for unfit medicare patients.
Sure, you can say ……we’ll just defund RTP and the trail users will volunteer and donate to keep these trails alive and more being built. I have been on the front lines of trail construction since about 1996…..and that is nonsense. It won’t happen. But that is just my opinion.
I am busy today working on a ton of tax returns.
I wrote all the RTP Grants for FATS. $200,000 RTP. $70,000 USFS Centienial Fund. USFS matched the RTP Grants with $35,000 cash (paid for the parking lots, mostly). SORBA CSRA donated 2500 volunteer hours valued at $25,000.
HKSP…..funded with RTP.
Wine Creek rehab….RTP
Horn Creek rehad….RTP
Long Cane Horse Trail…..RTP
Alot of the MTB trails in Paris Mtn SP…..RTP
Back to FATS. Finally, about $10,000 was attempted to be raised from MTBers. This was after we had built the first 26 miles. I thought it was a no brainer….ask riders for donations. It was a total failure. MTBers simply would not donate in amounts that would be needed to even match the RTP Grants….and your brilliant idea is to rely on donations?
Jeff….do you often post about things in which YOU HAVE NO FUGGING CLUE?
FATS costs about $325,000 & 2000 volunteer hours to build. Parking lots included. 35 miles.
I found a cliff bar on Saturday while riding.
I ate it on Sunday while riding.
It was great.
I’ve owned an IF steel deluxe since 1996, the first year they made them. I’ve had two. Still have the second one. Sold the first one to a friend and he still rides it, AFAIK.
I’ll prolly buy another Turner when I decide to replace the one I have now. Maybe a Sultan.
Beer. Been a Bass Ale fan for a long time. But lately have been on the Magic Hat #9 bandwagon.
I can’t make that.
1. Riding the LCHT on June 4.
2. Turkey and Wine gonna be a mess, webs, nettle, itchy vegetation in general.
3. I hope you guys get a weather repeat of this past weekend. But it may be hot and humid well into the evening….and I don’t sleep good like that.
4. I got too much happening with my house for sale, 3 kids and trail building company I run on the side of my regular job.But it really comes down to #1 mainly. And #4.
I could suffer thru 2 and 3 and smile the whole time.
What route?
that is a really technical ride. Pilot Rock ain’t no joke and is one of the most technical trails in Pisgah. I don’t know about that route and a bikepacking load.
I looked here and found this http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index. … 940.0.html
"GoldenGoose" wroteWhat’re your thoughts on the weather for riding at the beginning of June? Too hot? Doable? Better off waiting until Fall? Also, are both routes mainly through wooded areas with tree cover? If I’m going to hit up Augusta in the Summer I’d at least like to have some shade to hide under.
BTW, thanks for the info and opinions.
I think it will be too hot/humid to sleep at night (at least for me). In about 1996, I got dropped off at the Northern most spot of the Long Cane Ranger District. The idea was to ride to the Southern most point in 3 days. Did it over Memorial Day weekend. We camped the first night, but the second night ended about 20ish miles from my house (by car). We drove to my house and slept there.
We didn’t "bike pack" though. We just had our day riding stuff with us, and had our gals meet us at the first camp, and then dropped a car at the second camp. So we had the option to drive to A/C…and did.
We did the mission and that ride became the Long Cane Massacre Ride in 1999. I now live on the USFS gravel road that is about a mile above the southern most point on the district. Had no idea when I rode past the last house on the left that I’d live there in the coming years. It was about 140 miles to complete the ride.
Heat/humidity in June…..I’d be looking at Pisgah. You are correct about the miles in Pisgah.
Edit to add: An option would be to do the ride here, but plan to be in HKSP for your overnight. And stay in a A/C room there.
"BUDDAH" wroteseenvic,
why would you say W.N. Carolina what makes that the best???Big techy rides. Long rides. Long climbs, descents. Pisgah has old school hard trails to ride. DuPont has newer style, flowier trails. Tsali is there for those who don’t like Pisgah.
A typical 5 hour ride in WNC has a lot of climbing and descending. You may climb for 45 minutes to an hour, then go down, repeat.
Out west….the climb can be for 3-4 hours of the 5 hours. Then a one hour DH.
I like the WNC riding of up/down/up/down better than one long up and one long down. I realize this is a personal preference that others may not share.
Where I live is pretty flat. A long climb here is a mile or two long. Those are rare, but the longest we have. When I ride Pisgah, climbing for an hour seems like a long time (to me).
I enjoy the riding out west, but prefer WNC’s style to the west.
Western North Carolina.
You can have the west. Been there.
I’ll take Western North Carolina.
I was running X9 for about 2.5 years. Switched bikes and started mostly riding dual control shimano (because I always liked it with a rapid rise rear der.). When the bike with X9 was ready to go again, I just took all the Sram off and bought new dual control on closeout as Shimano has quit making it.
For me, they both work fine. Shimano has a lighter shift engagement and I like the brake lever/shifter combo (I must be one of the very few who liked it).
I’m good to go on drivetrains for 2+ years. I’ll be back then and will look at both Sram and Shimano as they are both good with me.
I’ve ridden with Jere Wood, the mayor.
Good guy. Good rider.
Google "Pisgah mountain biking".
You are moving about an hour south of the best "tours" east of the Mississippi. And DuPont is great too and it is even closer to Greenville.
(tours = trails)
GPS elevation gain is kinda wacky at times.
But a good rule of thumb for Pisgah is 150 feet of gain per mile ridden. This is for a normal, XC style ride of going up and down.
When I see rides averaging 200+ per mile for pretty long rides….I am suspect of those numbers.
ORAMM is 9500 feet and SM100 is 12,250. Both are advertised as more. But I’ve ridden those routes with high end GPS units more than once and get these figures. ORAMM is 63 miles and SM 100 is 100 miles. So the 150 feet per mile fits both of these fairly well.
Do I think the thing around NGA gains over 250 per mile….no.
To be accurate, the elevation data has to be gathered using a barametric pressure altimeter. Many of the lower end garmin bike/gps units are notorious for doubling or even tripling the elevation gain. I’ve seen FATS stated as over 5000 feet and it is about 2600 for all 6 loops.
Long climb…..
in Florida?
Come on man.
Ride with people stronger than you and you will get stronger.
Time or Shimano clipless.
If you have alot of BMX type skill, platform.
But I’d take clipless pedals over front suspension if had to choose.
