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Recently I got into a small quibble with a commenter over one of our cartoons. The cartoon illustrated a mountain biker talking about how light his new ride was. The caveat though, was that it included thin tires and weak brakes. The reader said something like “any decent full-suspension mountain bike over 28-pounds belongs on a Wal-Mart shelf.”
“Oof,” I though. This person is highly misinformed about modern mountain bikes. I replied to his comment, letting him know that World Cup athletes would disagree. His response: something like, “Well duh, more weight means more gravity.” They missed the point, and I could have had a better argument, but my focus was already bouncing around emails and twenty different tabs, and arguing with people in comments sections is highly unproductive, generally speaking. Following this, I am inclined to believe that the quibble inspired this survey.
My initial reaction to their comment, because I had weighed my bike the other day was “well, my bike weighs 32lbs and it friggin’ rips. What’s he trying to say?” It’s almost like hearing someone in the halls on the way to biology class say something superficial about your girlfriend to someone else, and you get this urge to stick your neck out and defend her. In our world of mountain bikes, arguments about weight and geometry and such are pretty trivial, but it’s our world, and I love nuance, and that’s why I chose the word quibble in the beginning of this argument.
Moreso, I have heard similar statements from friends lately. “I’d buy that bike, but it’s too heavy.” “I don’t want anything over 30lbs.” In other words, “this could be an absolutely sick bike for me, but one pound over my self-imposed limit and it’s a hard no.”
The truth of the matter is, and after spending more time this year on a lot of different bikes, the last thing I usually notice, and that anyone would likely notice, is a bike’s weight. Okay, a lot of this isn’t going to apply to competitive XC racers. Yes, weight still matters for you. And yeah, bikepackers too. But, I imagine the reasoning behind caring about weight when shopping for a new bike though is that brands usually list the weight for builds in their specs online. For consumers, with search engine tabs of their own pulled up, each one with a different bike, weight becomes an easy way to eliminate one of the many choices out there.
I had a similar experience car shopping over this summer and the MPG of one vehicle over another is why I chose the model that I bought, although the V8 I drove was way more fun. Yes, weight can make a difference, but when it comes to efficiency of movement, there are several other factors that make an even bigger difference, just like in a car.
Within the past two years, geometry has changed across brands just as much as it changed the two years before that. Except that the general consensus of thinking, seems to be “steeper, longer, slacker” instead of “lower, longer, slacker.” Those seat tubes are on the up and up and so are our climbing positions. Weight is generally considered a negative attribute because it takes away from climbing capability, but I for one will probably never buy a trail bike with a seat tube angle slacker than 75°, because hanging off the back end of a bike and putting more weight and energy into the rear suspension is just an awful feeling. That is of course to say that XC bikes still have pretty slack STAs, because their HTAs are steeper than most trail bikes. But, remember, we’re not talking about XC bikes!
Suspension kinematics have continued to make incredible strides over the past few years as well. Horst links, DW-links, CBFs, single-pivots, and anything in between. The range of acceptable pedal bob has shrunken tremendously, wasting less and less energy in the rear shock, while maximizing the traction that could be sacrificed for efficiency. There’s a lot that buyers can do about weight after they’ve bought a bike. There’s less that they can do to make the suspension more efficient.
This brings us into the discussion of build kits and how they affect the weight of the bike. It’s not a secret that product managers often pick thin-walled tires with light casings to bring the production weight of a complete bike down. If you’re a lighter rider who isn’t tangling with rock gardens and casing square edges, this might not be an issue. But, it is an issue for a lot of riders who need something thicker to stand up to what their bike is capable of. Don’t ask Gerow about this, unless you’re ready for an earful, but it is relevant to the conversation.
A proper, dual-ply tire can easily weigh 200g more than a thinner version. For a set, that’s 400g, or 14oz, which is just shy of a pound. A pound can make a hell of a difference in saying yes or no to a bike if you’re just comparing them on paper, but for anyone who really enjoys pushing the limits of their bike, it’s a weight penalty they’ll gladly accept. Having to sweat a little more on the way to the top beats hunching over your bike on the side of the trail to put a tube in.
Ask a handful of Enduro World Series riders what their bikes weigh, and there’s a good chance that number will be in the mid-30s. Dual-ply tires, coil shocks, tire inserts, and frames made to withstand serious abuse add up. But, I’d say that enduro racing and the development that’s since come is why we have more efficient suspension and steeper seat tube angles.
On top of that, it’s normal to see EWS athletes running 34t chainrings because they have no problem pedaling 35lb bikes up massive grades all weekend long with gearing most of us wouldn’t entertain. Could they climb better with lighter tires, or by using air suspension over coil? Sure, but I’d also bet that none of them would say that their bikes are bad at climbing because they’re heavy. They spend enough time training to compensate for that, and they need to because there are still plenty of enduro courses with rogue ascents smack dab in the middle. The advances in suspension technology and geometry have greatly compensated for a bike’s weight these days.
We don’t all have time to train like an EWS athlete to overcome a heavy bike, but we don’t all have time to train like an XC athlete either, where a pound or two does make a difference, and since most of us aren’t pro-enduro-ers, we don’t all need coil shocks and 12-pound wheelsets and there are lighter, more durable components than ever.
By all means, if weight is still a sticking point for you, go with the ultra-thin rubbers, and lightest carbon wheels available. Those definitely aren’t sold at Wal-Mart — yet. But, everything has its tradeoffs and I’d prefer holding my riding partners back because I’m the slow one on the heavier bike over having them wait for me in the middle of an epic downhill because I needed to remedy a cracked component or punctured tire.
36 Comments
Oct 8, 2020
And I can say with certainty that there is no one size fits all in mountain biking. But in regard to weight I have learned that the lighter the better if there is any degree of climbing involved. Even with my enduro bikes I have always leaned toward the 27-28 lbs weight range (Pivot Mach 5 and Santa Cruz Hightower ). When it comes to shorter travel bikes (Niner JET RDO, or my Ibis Ripley) the lighter the better. Again, if you want to be able to climb as efficiently as possible and just have more fun to get up the hills quicker and with killing yourself.
But, there is another factor that needs to be considered. The lighter a particular model, the more expensive it is.
I have been a serious mountain biker for 26 years. I have raced XC, Enduro (called downhill in the day) and lived in areas where I only needed a hardtail or a shot travel suspension (East Coast of USA). I have also lived in areas where a longer travel bike was better (West Coast of USA and, Costa Rica, Chile).
And I can say with certainty that there is no one size fits all in mountain biking. But in regard to weight I have learned that the lighter the better if there is any degree of climbing involved. Even with my enduro bikes I have always leaned toward the 27-28 lbs weight range (Pivot Mach 5 and Santa Cruz Hightower ). When it comes to shorter travel bikes (Niner JET RDO, or my Ibis Ripley) the lighter the better. Again, if you want to be able to climb as efficiently as possible and just have more fun to get up the hills quicker and with killing yourself.
But, there is another factor that needs to be considered. The lighter a particular model, the more expensive it is.
So, my council is to get the lightest bike you can afford in the said category you are exploring. Is this the only important consideration, of course not, but don’t write off the weight of the bike as “not important to me” if you want to climb with less pain, faster and just plain more fun. If you don’t care at all about “getting up” then sure, ignore the weight and the extra exercise in lugging the extra weight of the climbs.
Oct 8, 2020
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Oct 7, 2020
Historically it seems mountain bikes have been on sort of a yo-yo diet, gaining features (like suspension, or dropper posts) and consequently, added weight; then, the engineers start looking for ways to reduce weight while keeping the new features everyone has come to love. Over the past few years it seems we've been in the feature phase with dropper posts and meatier tires, so gaining weight is acceptable. I suspect once we're out of ideas for stuff to add, or we're happy with how capable our bikes have become, we'll start chasing the next improvement which may very well be lighter weights.
One of the things that makes bikes fascinating to me is the constraints that shape their design. As human-powered machines, they will always need to be "light enough" to remain efficient yet capable enough to take us to all the crazy places we want to go. Balancing the two will always remain a challenge.
Oct 7, 2020
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Oct 8, 2020
Additionally, there is a huge difference between rolling weight and static weight, which I don't believe was addressed in this article. Light weight wheels and stiffer wheels (which normally goes hand-in-hand) will certainly make a rider faster. Again, especially uphill.
Speed is a function of power to weight. More power with the same weight = faster. Or same power with less weight = faster. Again, everyone has their own thing, but I like going faster. Without a major increase in ones power, a lighter bike is faster plain and simple and might be as big a determining factor as anything. Of course, a lighter rider can make an even bigger difference. Taking a couple pounds off a bike is expensive, taking a couple pounds off a rider just requires some work and discipline.
But, my point - weight matters if you want to go fast!
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Aug 12, 2021
I am however a little perplexed as to why so many people talk about Bikes like the human body doesn't adjust or adapt. Bikes have primarily one rider, and if you go with a lighter bike it will feel lighter (for a while), same with heavier.
We adapt and we ride trails by feel there aren't 2 days where the loam is exactly the same, we literally ride by the seat of our pants.
If you are a pro-racer I can see why you'd care about a lightweight bike that performs, the rest of us it's up to preference.
Enjoy your ride, even if your next one is a little heavier... ENJOY
Oct 11, 2020
Do I worry about weight? Not so much since I am looking at long term ownership with the performance that will allow the bike to keep its job. I do look at places where I can save a little weight without compromise on overall longevity or performance.
While I don't really care about weight, I have no interest in a bike made of rebar either.
At the same time, I pass on the bike that is anorexic since it might survive a season of trialsy Rocky Mountain riding, might being the key modifier.
Oct 11, 2020
As for you passing someone on one of these bikes, if ridden by the right person, no one is passing a XC rider on a super light XC rig, unless you’re just doing downhill trails. Then yeah a downhill bike is needed.
Weight matters - IF you want to go fast. And that’s up or down, again the caveat if you’re only looking for a downhill ride.
You can buy light - durable - cheap - but not all three at once. Pick two. Light durable is never cheap, but it does exist and it is crazy fast. Light cheap isn’t durable. And durable cheap is going to be heavier.
But the main thing is we all have fun. Weight IS a key consideration for me, and I’m not wrong for making it so.
Which is why I think the article headline is a bit off.
Oct 11, 2020
Dec 17, 2021
Too many have been a one season wonder however, that doesn't say all are. Such a deal!
As for looking for a ride. I live in the Rocky Mountains at 7,000' of elevation... Show me a ascent without a descent! Either way, I haven't opted to renew the Keystone season pass lately.
Now back to the plastic bike, at that budget, I require that it shall be executed with the lengths and angles I and only i specify, plain as that.
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Dec 16, 2021
That being said weight is so so important. I’ve always went for stronger and longer as better but to an extent.
I rode a 2001 Kona Stab 150mm travel and dual crown forkthat started at 40 lbs and a 40 tooth single chain ring as my XC bike . Which now you’d call it a trail bike or down country . Xc didn’t mean race then XC race did . A trail bike is now down country now but I’m getting off track . Mainly because I hate the word DownCountry.
So I rode fat tires of 2.3 and even downhill casings when 1.8”and 2.2 (the fat trail tire) was the thing. And I’d beat many many of the guys to the top of climbs and definitely down .
First thing I did was get that big heavy fork off and throw on a coil sprung Pike and got off the heavy coil rear shock for an air shock . Then put on a 36t chain ring and lighter wheels and lighter fat tires . Got a 40# pig into a 33.5# trail bike .
That weight got me into realm of do able 150mm trail bike . I like my trail bikes at 140-160 and believe a trail bike should be sub 30# . A 26-28 lbs 140-150 travel trail bike is where I’d love to live . It’s weight and efficiency . That’s an expensive 29er these days . But 32-34 pounds as a norm is too heavy and a bike can be built up and have components that are good and reliable and be lighter for the average rider . I do realize bikes are bigger faster and more capable. My bikes I rode for trail riding were always ahead of the curve and heavier. I also was almost as fast as the weight weenies. The longer the ride the farther I got behind the fastest guys . My fitness was always very high , way about average riders.
So we should talk weight and efficiency for the average writer not for the elite athletes . Lighter wins the climbs and saves energy. A spent rider will crash in the technical and downhill sections if he’s completely gassed from the ups killing him . Period! So weight is still the deciding factor 90% of the time . Even if you factor in unsprung weight making the suspension work better.
So I’m done but I don’t see why this is even a discussion. After 34 years of mtn biking nothing has changed there. I started biking before the first full suspension Gary Fisher , Mert Lawill bike . It’s always been balance of weight vs durability and where do I sacrifice for the best performance for MY abilities and fitness.
Now I’m done
Oct 9, 2020
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I ride a $10 k “weight weenie anorexic” bike. First of all, it’s definitely not a one season wonder. I’m on my third Sworks Epic full suspension. The only reason it’s my third is because I keep selling the last model and upgrading every three years. Sell the frames for a ton of money, to friends, that keep riding them. Likewise just got the new Roval Control Team LTD wheels. Again they’re replacing a three year old pair of Roval wheels. Old ones were about 1380 grams. New ones are 1240 grams. And again the old ones were given to a friend. I have carbon wheels on a gravel bike that are six years old. Good expensive stuff doesn’t break, and as a matter of fact the pros that get paid to ride bikes ride the weight weenie stuff. And it’s not replaced every year. The full carbon $10,000 XC bikes last as long as anything. And with the new XC geo are more capable than ever.
As for you passing someone on one of these bikes, if ridden by the right person, no one is passing a XC rider on a super light XC rig, unless you’re just doing downhill trails. Then yeah a downhill bike is needed.
Weight matters – IF you want to go fast. And that’s up or down, again the caveat if you’re only looking for a downhill ride.
You can buy light – durable – cheap – but not all three at once. Pick two. Light durable is never cheap, but it does exist and it is crazy fast. Light cheap isn’t durable. And durable cheap is going to be heavier.
But the main thing is we all have fun. Weight IS a key consideration for me, and I’m not wrong for making it so.
Which is why I think the article headline is a bit off.
My 28# squish+ does just fine on my training runs. I search out roadies so I can go wide open and leave em like a dirty shirt. There are a few that I cannot out do, but the majority... That is indeed another story... Mountain living at 8,ooo' elevation does wonders!
Oct 8, 2020
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Oct 8, 2020