Greg shares what it’s REALLY like to live the van life, and offers advice for hitting the road

This week we’re joined by Greg Heil, Managing Editor at Singletracks. Over the years, Greg has shared stories from trails all over North America—and for two of those years, he was doing it all while living full-time on the road in a van.

We’re going to talk about what that experience was like: the incredible places he rode, the highs and lows of vanlife, and what ultimately led him to settle down again. Whether you’ve been dreaming of hitting the road yourself or you’re just curious about what it takes to live that lifestyle, there’s a lot to learn here.

• What inspired you to hit the road and live out of a van full-time in the first place?
• Tell us about your van setup—what kind of vehicle were you working with, and how did you configure it for full-time living, working, and mountain biking?
• Were there any must-have upgrades or clever hacks that made life easier?
• How did you manage your work as a writer and editor while constantly on the move?
• Were there any unexpected gems—places that surprised you or exceeded your expectations? What about well-known spots you ended up leaving early?
• What were some of the biggest challenges you faced?
• Are there any common mistakes people make when they’re just starting out?
• After a couple of years on the road, you decided to settle in one place again. What led to that decision?
• What’s one thing you packed in the van that you never ended up using?
• What’s one item you couldn’t live without on the road?

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This episode is sponsored by Greater Sandpoint Chamber of Commerce.

If you’re looking for your next mountain bike destination that offers just about everything, put Sandpoint, Idaho at the top of your list! The Lower Basin trail system serves up world-class riding through towering timber and across massive granite rock slabs, with trails for every rider — from technical black diamond descents to fast, flowy cross-country loops.

For excellent park-style riding, head up to Schweitzer Mountain Resort with dedicated downhill trails and e-bike access to more than two dozen trails. Or pedal from town to the Pine Street Woods trail system where the trails range from flowy to technical.

When you’re ready to take a break from the trails, Lake Pend Oreille is right there for camping, boating, swimming, or even standup paddleboarding. And after a big day outdoors, head into the town of Sandpoint where you’ll find a great selection of bars and restaurants to relax and refuel. 

Get all the details to plan your perfect getaway at visitsandpoint.com. The trails and the good times are waiting for you when you Visit Idaho!

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Automated transcript

Jeff Barber 0:00
Hey everybody, welcome to the Singletracks podcast. I’m your host, Jeff Barber, and today I’m joined by Greg Heil, our Managing Editor here at Singletracks. Over the years, Greg has shared stories from trails all over North America, and for two of those years, he was doing it all while living full time on the road in a van. We’re going to talk about what that experience was like, the incredible places he rode, the highs and lows of Van life, and what ultimately led him to settle down again. Whether you’ve been dreaming of hitting the road yourself or you’re just curious about what it takes to live that lifestyle, there’s a lot to learn here. Greg, welcome back to the podcast.

Greg Heil 0:38
Thanks for having me, Jeff. I’m stoked to be here.

Jeff Barber 0:42
So let’s start at the beginning. What inspired you to hit the road and live out of a van full time in the first place?

Greg Heil 0:51
I mean, you kind of nailed it in the intro, but in one word, it’s look for mountain bike trails. I have a seemingly insatiable appetite for riding and exploring new mountain bike trails after living in the same place for six years or so, there’s really only one way to find new trails to ride that was to like hit the road to somewhere entirely new. But the transition to actually living in a van and doing classic van life actually came while my now wife and I were already traveling full time. So, okay, I’ve been traveling internationally quite a bit before covid Shut that down, as well as, like, in country, in my pull behind trailer. But when that got stolen, that prompted a pivot to looking at, like, oh, like, maybe a van is the next thing.

Jeff Barber 1:38
Okay, that’s cool. Yeah. And so, for people who don’t know, you lived in salida for six years, and I’m curious, like, Did you ride every single trail, like, within some radius of Salida during that time?

Greg Heil 1:52
There’s three, I think, in Chaffee County that I haven’t ridden before.

Jeff Barber 2:02
Wow, you know the number.

Greg Heil 2:04
I’m still hoping to do them at some point. They’re all extremely remote, difficult to get to, and probably not very fun to ride. I would like to check them off at some point just to do them, yeah, there’s been a few of those where I had, like, set out on a big expedition ride to try to, like, cock, you know, like, make it there, and, like, had to turn around. Like, so the the few trails I’ve ridden or have not ridden in Chaffee county yet, are not easy ones to get.

Jeff Barber 2:38
Wow. Yeah. That just just speaks to your dedication to, like, exploring and riding new trails. And, yeah, I could see that if you you’ve ridden all the ones in your area, and you know, the ones that are left are really difficult to get to, then, yeah, it’s time to hit the road. Had, had you done extended travel like this before? I mean, you talked about, like, some longer trips that you’ve been doing, sort of traveling more, sort of full time but, but was this, was this something you had experience with, or was it kind of a big leap for you at the time?

Greg Heil 3:14
So moving to full time travel, like, when I kind of made that transition, that was a pretty big leap. I would say the biggest trips I’d done before that were a couple of big ones for Singletracks back in the day, or partially for single tracks, where you were documenting trails, like out in California and Oregon. And I’d done like, a month long trip, one that was almost two but then, you know, I pivoted into four and a half years of full time travel, which is kind of a whole different world and a whole different level of dedication. And the inspiration for that is maybe my like, maybe I’m not as, like, creative in some ways as I think I am, because, like, I remember reading about, like, digital nomads and people traveling full time. And I was like, Wait a second, like I could do that. Like, I would have to quit my job to go and do that. I was like, Why? Why haven’t I, like, considered that? I was like, oh, you know. So I was like, That sounds fantastic. That sounds like a really cool way to live.

Jeff Barber 4:19
Yeah, that’s awesome. So I mean, a big part of this, I’m sure, is like, the logistics of everything. And I mean, for me, that would be the most daunting part is like figuring out, how am I going to live, like, am I going to be comfortable all that stuff on the road? So tell us about your van setup. What kind of vehicle were you working with, and how’d you set it up for full time, living, working and mountain biking? Because that’s, that’s a lot of stuff.

Greg Heil 4:45
It is a lot of stuff. So we have a dodge ram promaster, which was built by dm vans, and they are a company that’s now out of rifle Colorado. Okay, I think we have the LV two. Model from DM vans, but their current model is, like, they’ve got a newer model now, the LV three, the new model is definitely quite a bit nicer than what we purchased, but you know, it’s also dramatically more expensive too.

Jeff Barber 5:13
So is it the same vehicle and they just, like, kit it out nicer or something, or like, what’s, what’s kind of the difference, or the upgrade?

Greg Heil 5:20
So here’s what DM vans is. Got going on. We chose DM vans for a few reasons. There’s no end of like, Van builders out there, right? Like, there’s a lot of choices to choose from so, and there’s lots of people doing it themselves, but we were already living on the road full time, and we decided a, we didn’t have the place to build a van because we were traveling and be like, we also didn’t have the skills. Like lots of people that build bands are already, like, pretty handy. They maybe do that for fun. Have some friends that were like, that’s an architect that, like, you know, did interior CAD designs of like, a custom build out that they did. We I’m a writer, so I didn’t have those skills, and we did a lot of research and kind of determined that we thought DM vans had some of the best value vans on the market at the time. This still might be true, but they were the only van builder in the nation that had a direct relationship with a van manufacturer, so they actually sourced the vans directly from dodge. And we also, like got a discount on the base fan as a result. So they source the vans directly, and then they build them. And at the time, like they had a base level build. It’s like all the vans have this same basic build out, which is that LV to build, and then at the time you could add, like, certain upgrades to it. You could say, like, oh, I want to change this or this, but you basically get the same thing with a few options. The LV three is like an entirely new base build, like, it looks entirely different on the inside, but still on that Dodge Ram pro master base. So there’s, for people who are unaware, there’s three main van bases that are used for Van life thing, and a fourth, that’s a little bit less. But the three main ones are the the Sprinter, Volkswagen sprinter, Mercedes, Mercedes Sprinter. Sorry, yes, Mercedes Sprinter, Van the Ford Transit and the Dodger and ProMaster. And then there’s some Nissans that are used, but that’s probably like lesser than the three out of the big three. The ProMaster is kind of known as one of the more, like affordable options, but like high value options.

Jeff Barber 7:43
OK cool. And, yeah, so when you’re setting it up, it sounds like you had pretty much, like, it’s kind of a standard package, but then obviously, like, you’re into mountain biking, and you know, so what did, what did you have to do to make it work for mountain biking? Like, what accessories Did you add or how did you have that set up?

Greg Heil 8:02
So we specifically chose this one because it has an elevated bed design, so bikes can go under the bed. Some companies don’t do an elevated bed design, so that’s kind of like step number one, make sure you fit bikes under the bed. And once we had that is kind of a bit like the garage under the bed was, like, empty, so it was like a blank platform to do what I wanted with and put a pretty simple setup. And actually ended up using this Rocky Mounts tray system. And it’s like a sliding tray that I bolted to the floor and then cut to size after, like, determining, like, how far I wanted to go across the van, I didn’t run it all the way. And I use that rail system, and I put fork mounts on the rail. And I did that because then the fork mounts are movable. So depending on which bikes I’m hauling, over the years, we’ve had like, three bikes in there in two and bikes kind of move around based on the other things. In the back, I can move those mounts on the rail really easily without re drilling into the floor. So that’s kind of the system I opted for. So it’s pretty cheap, easy to install, doesn’t take up a lot of space. You know, there’s no end of systems. Like, there’s some that you’ll see there, kind of like, pull out trays that, like, roll the bikes all the way out of the van. Those are cool, but they’re expensive, and they also take up quite a bit of vertical room, so every inch matters, especially like, vertically under that bed.

Jeff Barber 9:38
So yeah, I guess the big thing too is you want the van, the bikes inside the van? Because, I mean, you know, for normal people, if you’re not living the van life, you’re just driving to a trail, you know you’re gonna use a bike rack on the back of your vehicle, but it sounds like that’s not, that’s not even like a consideration, right? I mean, are you worried about bikes getting stolen or damaged?

Greg Heil 9:59
Yeah, I mean theft and damage, like having them inside is ideal, but again, we’re full timing on the road, so we ended up, after about a year, adding a bike rack on the back as well. But the rack we went with, like, sits high up on the door, so it swings out with the doors, which swing out of the back, so you don’t have ground clearance issues. You don’t have to deal with a swing hitch. And our general go to setup for gear is we have two mountain bikes inside, two gravel bikes out in the back. They’re usually covered with a bike cover so it protects then from the rain, and and then a paddle board and hiking gear inside.

Jeff Barber 10:41
Yeah, wow. It’s a lot of stuff. So what about the working side of things? Like, I guess, I guess by now, most people are using like, Starlink internet. I mean, is that, is that kind of the way to go? Is that what your setup is?

Greg Heil 10:56
That’s definitely the way to go. Starlink really came on, didn’t come online, but they changed stuff in the way the system worked to make it usable for nomads right on kind of tail end the last few, say, six months when we were full timing. Okay, so it would have made it way easier the entire if we had had that the entire time. That’s percent the way to go now. So we do have a Starlink set up that we do still, still use. I mean, that makes a system so much easier. Before that, you used combination of, like, cell phone hotspots, libraries, coffee shops. Oh, wow, you name. That probably done over the years.

Jeff Barber 11:36
So jeez, yeah, that that takes a lot more planning and gets in the way of that. You know, the classic thing that I think a lot of us imagine is, you know, van parked on the side of, like, you know, some amazing view. And, you know, people with their laptop outside, like, How accurate is that it was? Was that, like, kind of your everyday thing, or, like, what do you when you’re actually working? And, you know, I mean, I guess I’ve seen it too, like, we’d have our video calls and stuff, and like, I know you’re inside the van, you’re not, like, sitting at a picnic table usually, and, you know, just enjoying the sun. So, yeah, what’s, what’s that like?

Greg Heil 12:13
If you’ve never tried to work on a laptop and direct sunlight before, like, that doesn’t work. I can’t see the screen, you know. And then these people who claim to, like, be sitting in hammocks, working, like, that’s terrible on, like, your body. Like, I mean, the stuff is just horrid. So, I mean, sometimes, yeah, working for picnic tables, but only if it’s in like shade, you know. But in our van, we have a couple of swing out lagoon tables and some benches, and we’ve got rotating front chair, so we’ve got a system inside that works for for working and again, like, yeah, it’s great to hang out, like, on the side of the mountain. It’s not always the best for work, especially before we had the Starlink. Yeah, lots of times we’d be when it was time to work, we’d often be commuting into town, so you might have a campsite out of town, and especially if you’re like in the big mountains, self service is really spotty, so you might often have to commute into the closest little mountain town to get any sort of service or work at a coffee shop or library, or something of that nature. So, right? Working, working is tough, like, that’s yo, it’s way more fun when you’re not working. You know, run into all these people out there who are just on vacation or retired. I mean, there’s lots of times when we were the youngest people in like, Some campgrounds like in Texas or in Arizona, by probably, like, 2030, years. You know, everybody else is just retired and in their 60s, and then we’re just hanging out, like, doing work.

Jeff Barber 13:49
But they were the ones that were jealous, because they’re like, man, what if we had done this when we were as young as that guy? Man, that would have been awesome,

Greg Heil 13:57
A little bit. And then also being like, Oh, we could just do this for a really long time at this rate.

Jeff Barber 14:01
Yeah, that’s awesome. So yeah, obviously there, there is an investment involved in this, in getting the right setup and all the equipment. How much do these vans cost? Like, what’s kind of the price range?

Greg Heil 14:15
So vans builds can range in price dramatically. So one example I like to use is the Winnebago revel, which is Winnebago build on a sprinter base with a lift kit.

Jeff Barber 14:27
A friend of mine has one of those.

Greg Heil 14:30
You see them everywhere, like it’s a really I use this one because a really common build. And if you start looking for them, and you’re into the man sphere, you’ll start to see them all over the place, especially at Mountain Bike Trail heads, the lift kits, and the four by four is popular with the outdoor crowd, but these vans are about a quarter million dollars so. And the crazy thing is, you see them all over the place. We didn’t go for a van that was that expensive. And yeah, we were all in with ours for about 65,000 Which is like a brand new van and build and all of our upgrades, but like the latest DM vans start in the 90s and go up from there, depending on upgrades. Wow. That kind of gives you a sense of sense of the range.

Jeff Barber 15:13
Yeah, yeah. I understand too, especially on those Winnebago ones. You know, when you’re talking $200,000 to $250,000 people basically take out a mortgage to afford them too, right? Like, you can get some kind of it’s like a Class B motorhome, you know, mortgage that’s different than like a car loan, I guess. And maybe that helps. That’s how people can afford this.

Greg Heil 15:37
So that gets complicated, actually, as we found, if you’re working with a certified builder that has gotten their builds classed as a class B motorhome, then you can, you’ll qualify for an RV loan. But if you are not working with a and that’s like the big builders, that’s like a Winnebago DM vans, I think now has their stuff, Class, Class BS, when we bought it, it wasn’t yet. So if you’re building your own, you’re working as with a small builder, you probably don’t have that advantage. And then if you’re financing it, you’re looking at, you know, you know, maybe you could finance the van like on a auto loan, and finance the bill differently, but we might be looking at unsecured personal loan like financing is tricky for us. It was kind of, yeah, I’m going into details too much, but yeah, it was a bit tricky. And yeah, it varies depending on you know, who you’re working with and what you’re doing, so Right, right, but the interest rates even on the RV loans are not comparable to a mortgage.

Jeff Barber 16:45
Yeah, especially now compared to a few years ago. So, yeah, what we’re getting back to the build like, what were some kind of must have upgrades or clever hacks, maybe that that you found that made life easier on the road?

Greg Heil 17:01
One of the things that wasn’t included in the base build at the time, I think they do include it now, but was a cabin heater, and that was by far the number one best upgrade we made. It was one of the most expensive ones we added on. But our cabin heater is piped right into the gas tank, so we only have to manage one tank, versus, like a lot of people have, like, a diesel heater or propane. Ours just runs straight off the gas tank, so it’s super convenient, and that just makes it like so livable in, like, a variety of climates and temperatures. Yeah, is it quiet? It must have it’s pretty quiet. The has a the heater is quiet. Has a fan that runs, and it can run at different speeds depending on how hot cold it is. So it does add a bit of noise, but is, like, mandatory for living.

Jeff Barber 17:47
So you don’t have the engine running, I guess, right? Like, which is what you don’t want to do.

Greg Heil 17:53
Definitely don’t do that in Yeah, that the cabin heater is super efficient. Like, you don’t have to worry about, like, are you going to drain your gas tank? Like, it’s, it’s so efficient uses very minimal gas. And of course, the straw doesn’t go all the way down into the gas tank. So if you are so it leaves you some gas, yeah, it’ll leave you some but that also means you it’s good to, like, run out into the mountains with a full tank of gas, yeah? Because if you’re even, like, slightly sloshed or slightly slanted, you know, you want to make sure.

Jeff Barber 18:25
And these, these vans can get very cold, like, I understand, you know, I mean, if you’re I’m used to just, like, camping in a tent, and obviously that’s going to be cold. And I always figured, like, oh, the people in the RVs and the vans, I mean, they must be warm, but it gets really cold. In one of those if you don’t have a heater, right?

Greg Heil 18:47
If you don’t have a heater, it can get cold. It depends on how well your van is insulated to so lots of self builds, like it might skimp on the insulation, like if you just have the bare metal walls, that gets really cold. I have some friends that you know have built their vans at various stages and when they didn’t have insulation. Like, it’s readily apparent, but yeah, most pro builds, like insulation is, like, mandatory. We’ve got like, wood paneling in ours too, which helps as well. So it will, like, maintain, like heat fairly well.

Jeff Barber 19:19
Okay. Another question I have is like, how did you manage your work as a writer and as an editor while you were constantly on the move? Did you have like, a set work schedule every day, or did you kind of like fit it in, in between activities? What was kind of, how did you manage all that?

Greg Heil 19:37
First rule being a digital nomad, whether you’re in a mountain town in North America or on a beach in Bali, is that the work has to get done. So I work pretty typical schedule. Generally. I like to work in the mornings. I like to get up and I like to get my my work done. So I had a pretty consistent schedule. I have created a really. Like mobile work setup for myself, though I’ve got, like a laptop stand, so I’m not like craning my neck down external keyboard and mouse that are both really ergonomic. So it’s like a really lightweight system that can plug and play in, like a library in the van, and it can work really well. We covered the Starlink as well already, which is is critical and definitely a game changer once that came on the scene.

Jeff Barber 20:26
I mean when I first think about it, I think like, oh, that’s so cool. You have, like, all day to, you know, ride and just be outside and do your stuff. But then, yeah, it sounds like the reality is more like, you know, a lot of us, we work during the day, and then after work, we have our after work ride, but it’s, you know, it’s just like on our local trails. But if you’re living the van life, your after work ride is, hopefully, is somebody, somewhere, incredible, right? And so that’s kind of the payoff for that work.

Greg Heil 20:57
That’s the big difference, right? So if you’re camped in the desert Arizona, you might finish work and then literally roll out the van door onto this brand new trail you’ve never ridden, or you’re one of the best trails in North America, and you’re hopping from like place to place, hopefully slowly, so you can savor a little bit. But you know, each ride essentially is like a brand new ride, a brand new experience that you get to experience a new trail. So, yeah, it’s optimizing those evening times and those in between times for as much adventure as you can.

Jeff Barber 21:28
Yeah, yeah. Well, what about, like, I’m also curious about just kind of the other stuff that gets in the way of rides. You know, whether you live in a van or you’re living in a house, you know? I mean, you still gotta, like, eat meals, and so there’s, like, cooking and that kind of thing, like, are you able to save time on some of those other tasks, or are those pretty comparable to, like, what it would be if you were living at home?

Greg Heil 21:57
I mean, there’s definitely no yard maintenance, you know, no yard. That’s right? When you’re living in a van, you have a much smaller space to clean and maintain. So, right, which can be really beneficial, like, you know, I might sweep the floor almost every night in the van, and it takes me, like, 30 seconds, right? So it’s, it’s pretty some of that stuff is pretty easy. There are some challenges and Van specific chores that you have to stay on top of. One of them is filling fresh water and disposing of, like gray water, sink water and things in like an environmentally sustainable way. So and then also, like shopping food. So in our setup, we can carry about, like three to four days of food, most of that being fresh food in our fridge and about the same amount of water at like one point in time. So okay, looking for water, filling and dumping water, is like kind of a constant daily chore. If you’re moving your van a lot, there’s takes a lot of planning and preparation of plan for campsites, figure out where you’re going find camp, set up and set up and tear down. Can be pretty quick, generally speaking, but if you’re moving around a lot, that adds time onto it. So it depends how fast you’re moving, I really prefer to, like move as slowly as possible. So you know, if you’re really moving fast, and you’re on a big road trip and you’re trying to get somewhere that takes a lot of time to plan camping and find camping.

Jeff Barber 23:27
That makes sense. Well, yeah. So let’s talk about some of the places that you’re able to visit and ride. Let’s start first with like, kind of the unexpected gems, like places that you visited that ended up surprising you or exceeding your expectations.

Greg Heil 23:44
Man, there’s so many unexpected gems, and that’s part of the beauty of getting to travel slowly. You can stop and discover places that you might otherwise never have visited or just like skipped right over. So the most epic trip we took in the van was driving to Fairbanks, Alaska and back. That took us about five months door to door from Colorado. But ultimately, we began that year on the Mexican border, like, literally camped on the Rio Grande River, and by mid summer, we’re north of Fairbanks. So that’s Wow, hell of a truck like across that distance, but you’re through like that drive to Alaska, like we went through kind of southern BC and hit Vancouver Island and Whistler and Squamish, which we expect to be really good. And then our goal is Alaska. But in between, we found so many cool mountain bike destinations that we didn’t really expect through, especially through northern BC in the Yukon, so this is, like Williams Lake and Burns Lake and Smithers, all kind of in northern BC, and then car cross and Yukon, which is kind of your white horse, some of these places were just incredible, like trails, incredible sceneries. I like to say, if we did the trip north again, I just. Up in the Yukon and not even bother going to Alaska, like, yeah, was freaking awesome.

Jeff Barber 25:05
Well, what was the surprise though? I mean, I would imagine that it’s, it’s beautiful and amazing up there, but was it, like, the quality of trails that surprised you, or what? What was it that made it really stand out?

Greg Heil 25:18
You will see, you might think it’s beautiful and amazing, but a lot of Northern DC is actually just really flat. So okay, once you get north and out of, like the Coast Range, a lot of it is flat and treed. So for instance, you’re driving for hours and hours through what could look like Ontario, maybe. But then you get to a place like Smithers, and there’s these, like, mountain ranges that just kind of pop up, like, out of, like, the surrounding, like flat terrain, which you’re, like, not really expecting at all, but then, yeah, the quality of the trail in the trail building in a lot of these places, like Burns Lake, as an example, is this tiny little town, but they built, like, this amazing network of trails with a campground at the bottom right On a late like, you know, top tier, like flow trails, like Uber gnarly tech. I mean, the stuff is, you know, the quality you’d expect from BC, but like, hours and hours now.

Jeff Barber 26:13
Who’s building that and who’s riding that?

Greg Heil 26:17
Lots of professional trail building companies, but Carcross, this example is really interesting one. So that wasn’t like on our radar at all until we got into the Yukon or on our way up, and we’re chatting with people I plan to go to Whitehorse, which is the capital Yukon, has a bunch of trails around it. But then people kept saying, Oh, you got to go check out car cross. So we didn’t really have a ton of time, because we’re trying to get where we’re going. But we, like, you know, detoured south to car cross check it out, which is on on First Nations land. And it’s this incredible trail system, primarily built by First Nations kids who get employed during the summer to to go out and build these trails. So it’s built by, like, the local kids. It’s kind of a way to teach them a skill that they can apply, which professional trail building in the Yukon and BC, that’s, that’s a pretty good skill to have. And this trail network is, like, in a little insane, like, it’s, it’s, it’s incredible, like, super steep rock slabs, like tons of, like, long wooden skitties, bunch of like, built features on this mountain overlooking kind of this, this bay on coastal Yukon. And it’s just like, might not be a bay, might be a river. I have to double check my map, but it, you know, again, is one of these places that I hadn’t heard of. And just, you know, those surprises are really, really cool.

Jeff Barber 27:45
Yeah, yeah, it sounds like you got to be open to, I mean, you don’t have to, but you’re gonna have a lot more fun if you’re open to being flexible. And like asking people, like, where should we go? Like, what’s cool here? And taking that detour when the chance arises.

Greg Heil 28:02
100%. I really like to plan things, but I like to plan things and leave enough time in my plans that when you hear about something like that, you can say, hey, we’ll, we’ll drive south a couple hours and go check this out on our way.

Jeff Barber 28:14
So, yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. So on the flip side of that, were there any, like, really well known spots that you know you planned and you you got there, and then you ended up leaving early because it just wasn’t as awesome as you thought it was going to be.

Greg Heil 28:31
I’d say most of the places we left early were due to more likely difficulties in camping or weather, some other compounding factor than necessarily the trails being bad. So for example, a lot of the best mountain biking in Alaska is actually directly adjacent to Anchorage, because there’s enough people to build and maintain trails there. But we found the van camping around Anchorage to be really, really tough, so we actually spent less time there than we anticipated. And then one summer, we it seemed like we spent the entire summer basically just getting chased around the Western USA by wildfires and wildfires. Oh, geez. So, you know, there’s very like, those are often the reasons we leave places early. For instance, we went to Mount Rainier National Park and we’re there for like two day. Like, we went there to escape smoke in Bozeman, and we’re there for two days, and literally a fire started, like, on the opposite ridge, and then we got, like, smoked out of there.

Jeff Barber 29:28
Yeah, that’s a bummer that that sort of stuff happens quite a bit. Yeah, yeah. It seems like too, you know, we were hearing about it, and this was probably more like early covid times, but places, especially the more popular, well known places, just being overcrowded. And so I was wondering about that. Like, if you, you’re like, Okay, we’re going to Moab, we’re going to spend a week, and then you, you show up a place like that, and you’re like, we can’t find anywhere to camp. Or, like, you know, it’s just too crowded. Was that ever an issue for you?

Greg Heil 29:59
Sedona is pretty tough. I’ve been to Sedona a few times over the years, and at this point, Sedona is is buddy like that. I just it. Sedona is really tough. The camping has never been very good there. There’s not that great of camping. A lot of the Forest Service campgrounds are only open during the summer, and lots of times people are there, like, the winter and early spring, and there’s like, kind of one dispersed camping area, which gets way too crowded because it’s not big enough for, like, the demand of Sedona. And then the way the roads form in Sedona, if you’ve ever been there, it’s kind of like this V that comes together at this one junction. It could just be brutal to, like, drive across town. So yeah, that’s last one or two times I’ve been there. It’s been really tough, and we haven’t been back in a while. So there’s a lot of great places, right in Arizona. We’ve spent a lot of time in Arizona over the years, especially like wintering, and to the point where it’s like, Ah, don’t really need go back to you know?

Jeff Barber 31:01
Yeah, yeah. Lots of places to go, lots of great places out there. So, yeah, with with thinking about that, did living on the road give you kind of a different appreciation for trail access and mountain bike culture, seeing what it’s like in different places around the country?

Greg Heil 31:21
I think it is interesting to see different communities will have different vibes, and there’s even different styles of writing. But like, especially like, if you’re in Squamish versus like Arizona, like, things are very different. And like, you might be in a place that’s more downhill focused versus XC focused, right? But it’s kind of like, no matter where you go, like these people are, like, passionate about their trails, no? And it’s just really cool to see local communities making great things happen often in the face of adversity, you know, and challenges, whether politically or, like, monetarily or whatever you might have, and just seeing people like rally and have communities like around biking and how that’s like, such an important part of like those communities. So yeah, I think I just always appreciate the differences and appreciate the effort that every local community puts into their trails.

Jeff Barber 32:22
Well, I’m curious too, and we’ll get into, you know, where you ended up settling down, you know, once you were done living the van life full time. Coming from you’ve lived, in Salida, where there’s excellent trail access. But seeing other places, were there places where you’re like, Wow, this is even better. Like, I didn’t even realize that. Like, there’s these even more accessible places that people are living and building and and that sort of thing.

Greg Heil 32:57
That’s tough. I mean, you can’t help but compare, different communities. I think I tried really hard not to compare too much in the sense that, like, everywhere is a little bit different, and everywhere, like, especially if you’re looking at major mountain by destinations, lots of places have are different and they’re doing things just slightly different, or they’ve got something they really focus on, for instance, like, love spending the winter in Arizona. Like, spent quite a few winters in Arizona before we got the van, like you, rented a condo in Tucson for like, three months, like, so they spent a lot of time down there, but I would not want to live there in the summertime, you know. So, like, you it as a traveler, you get to kind of cherry pick, like, the best times a year to, like, visit certain areas, which is very different than saying, like, oh, I want to live here all year long. So, you know, that is kind of a tough bounce strike. So for instance, in Arizona, you’d be like this, these trails are great, like, maybe six months of the year, but the other six probably not so much. Or you go up to the Pacific Northwest, and when it’s dry in the summertime and the weather’s you’ll fantastic. That’s great. But like, do you want to be there in the rain all winter? You know, that’s a different like, decision matrix, right, right? So, yeah. And then there’s also places you go where you’re like, These trails are amazing, but then you’re like, but I really want to ride these trails, like 100% of the time, just thinking, I was just chatting with a friend who is up in north van and Squamish, and, like, for instance, North Vancouver trails are amazing. But every time you go out, it’s like, this is really tough and, like, one small move and that’s a broken collarbone, you know. And I was kind of like, you can admire the quality of the trails, but then ask, like, what I really want to ride this stuff, like, 100% of time? And maybe the answer is no, you know.

Jeff Barber 34:52
That is tough to, like, separate that out. I mean, I find myself thinking that too every time, every time I go on vacation. Anywhere, whether it’s a bike trip or I’m going to the beach, and yeah, you’re there, and you’re like, oh my gosh, it would be amazing to live here. But then, yeah, there’s reality. That’s a part of that. And I guess that’s the advantage of being in the van, because you can hit those places kind of at the ideal time and under the ideal conditions, and then sort of move on.

Greg Heil 35:23
Yeah, and maybe this is worth mentioning too. There are some towns that are in places that are really easy to van in and have convenient van access. And then there’s others that are tough to van in and still have really good trail access. It might be better for living. So like you kind of mentioned, Anchorage doesn’t have much in the way of good van camping. It’s not legally and but like, has pretty great trails now. So there are some communities where the van life thing is really easy, some places where the van life it can be really tough, but the trails are so great. So yeah, you’ve gotta, like, there’s, there’s a lot of different dynamics to like, evaluate when you’re talking about, like, how good or how bad a place is.

Jeff Barber 36:01
Yeah, interesting. Well, so we’ve touched on this a bit, but, you know, from the outside, Van life can look like it’s just one long vacation, but clearly, it’s not that simple. So I’m curious we, you know, we’ve mentioned a few of the challenges, but like, what are, what are some of the biggest challenges, I guess that you faced living the van life.

Greg Heil 36:23
People like to say the two main challenges of Van life are [pooping] and showering. But if you can come up with solutions to those two, then you’re golden. So showering actually can be, can be a tough one. But for showers, we we had, like a fan, a planet fitness membership, which was, you know, really affordable and really great if you’re in a place with Planet Fitness, which they’re not quite everywhere. So I thought they were all over the planet. That’s in the name. But like, you start talking about going to small mountain towns, and then, you know, like, it’s the thing with Van life in for mountain biking, is you end up in all these, like, really remote areas that don’t have necessarily great infrastructure. But even those places, oftentimes, there’s like, a community center, community pool, you can pay for a day pass to, like, go in and get a shower. Yeah, and, you know, sometimes it’s kind of expensive. Other times, I mean, there’d be places like, there’s this one shower near St George, Utah that we go to that I think, is like $1.

Jeff Barber 37:23
Truck stops too. Those have showers, right?

Greg Heil 37:26
Truck Stop showers are expensive. I mean, you’re talking maybe, like, you know, 15 bucks for a shower. Our Planet Fitness membership was like 19 for a month. And you can bring in a friend for free. So we only have one of them, you know? So, yeah, it never did the tricks, yeah. But we also have a setup in our van that works. Okay? We’ve got like a our sink has like extendable kind of spray hose, which we can pull out the window. And we’ve got electric heating element that we can heat our main water tank with so we can take, like, outdoor showers, like, fairly easily. So, yeah, so those are you’ve got to find solutions to the challenges, and then once you kind of get your system down, then they’re not so tough.

Jeff Barber 38:14
That’s awesome. So thinking about those challenges as well, like, Are there common mistakes, maybe that people make when they’re first starting out, or maybe, maybe you have some that when you first started out, like you made mistakes, curious about what those are.

Greg Heil 38:31
Oh, man, there’s so many mistakes people could make, and we probably made over over the years as well, but I one of the mistakes I see people making all the time, or, actually, here’s a few of them, but one that like bothers me, because I feel like they could be having such a better time, is when people travel too fast. I’m a big fan of slow travel, slowing down and savoring. I like to say, if you know, a place is worth visiting, is worth spending at least a week there, okay, not longer. And when you see people like, you know, stopping into a national park, like a massive national park, and they’re there for one night, and then they’re to the next national park for a night, and they’re doing the mighty five in Utah in like, a week, you’re just like, man, you’re spending your entire time setting up and tearing down camp and driving, and you’re not getting to, like, just sit experience this place you’re in. So I try to encourage people to slow down.

Jeff Barber 39:26
And that’s expensive too. I mean, it’s practical too. You’re not just like, Oh, you’d have a better time. It’s also like, that adds up, the gas and and everything to do that, right?

Greg Heil 39:37
Exactly. I mean, you can turn van life into a really affordable way to live, but to do that, you got to move like on a slower end, you know. And then, for instance, if you post up like in Tucson or in Moab or some of these, like places where it’s easy to Van life for like a month, you might not spend that much in gas like you. Might go through, like, what two takes or something, you know, in a month, like, it doesn’t have to be a lot, but if you’re chasing across the country, you’re gonna spend a lot more on gas. You just have to make those conscious decisions. For example, when we drove to Alaska. Now, I can’t remember exactly which year was a few years ago, but it was like the highest ever gas prices had ever been at the time. But we’ve been, like, planning towards this trip for like, over a year, because it’s, like, a really big excursion and not easy to do. And we’re just like, yes, gas is really expensive right now, but we don’t know if we’re ever going to have this opportunity or this time, like, set aside where we can make this happen again. So we just just went for it. So sometimes you got to do that too. Yeah, yeah. Other mistakes: One is sleeping at Walmart. I don’t know why people do this.

Jeff Barber 40:56
But it’s free and all your stuff is there…

Greg Heil 40:59
I just think it’s like the worst thing ever. I’ve never slept at a Walmart yet.

Jeff Barber 41:05
You might not know what you’re missing. It might be amazing. Maybe there’s like, campfires and s’mores.

Greg Heil 41:13
No comment on the Riff Raff that you see at Walmart after dark, you know, which could be a safety issue in some places, actually. So yeah, I think, like, a little bit of planning can go a long way to prevent you from having to do, like, you know, unpleasant urban camping. So planning ahead, trying to figure out where you’re going to be for the night, getting there at a reasonable time, could go a really long ways towards, like, making your experience a lot better. Okay, so, yeah, not planning enough. I think can can be a problem. And we talked a bit about the finances of Van life, but like, financing a van you can’t afford is something a lot of people do, which you know seems like a problem. I mean, everybody makes their own financial decisions. I choose not to do that.

Jeff Barber 42:04
And to be clear, when you did it, because you were full time, like, you didn’t have a mortgage or rent or anything else, right? I mean, it was just your van.

Greg Heil 42:13
Yeah, I didn’t have a mortgage or rent, and ended up basically more or less buying the van in cash, so, like, didn’t even have a car payment either. So we might get to this in a second, but actually, we could just jump in right now. Yeah, yeah. One thing we see a lot of are like, this is classic thing that happens where people be, like, living in a van full time, and then they stop and they’re like, All right, we’re going back to house life. And the moment they do, they turn around and they sell their van, and I just have the hardest time wrapping my head around it, because I’m like, You loved being a nomad. You love traveling in this lifestyle, and now you’re just like, not going to do it at all.

Jeff Barber 42:53
Unless you hated it, unless you really were, like, I’m never doing that again. But

Greg Heil 42:57
Let’s say you did it for a year. You can’t hate that that much, you know, right? But my theory is, like, less people, like, buy vans they can’t really afford, or maybe they could just barely afford the payment when they didn’t have, you know, a mortgage, and then hit a mortgage, and you can’t afford both things. So, right? I think there’s something to be said for making sure you can afford what you buy.

Jeff Barber 43:20
What about, like, your other living expenses, like housing costs aside, do you do you spend more or less on the road? About the same?

Greg Heil 43:36
I would say the housing costs are the number one thing, but then you’ve got to plan a bit for Van upkeep and Van maintenance. And again, it depends how fast you’re moving. So if you’re on a big road trip, you’re going to have a lot higher gas expenses and some of those travel expenses, I will say, when it comes to housing, though, like some people, there’s lots of different styles of Van lifeing, and some people will, like, say, only camp in places that are just free. Like, you know, dispersed camping, like, out in the boonies, that’s all they’ll do. We would be more than willing to pay for, like, cheap public campgrounds, not saying, like, you know, expensive, like koas, but like, you know, four service campgrounds are like, 10 to $20 a night or so, like, we’d be more than happy to pay for those. So I would say we were like, and in some areas of the country, if you’re vanning, that might be your only choice. For instance, in Texas, there’s very little public land, but there’s an amazing Texas state park system, like, That’s really incredible. So you’re gonna have to budget more for camping costs. But you’re like, in this park, and we would, you know, very often, like pay for campgrounds because the ship might be easier and you might have, like, water available as well, and the nicer campgrounds, which makes filling water also easier. Yeah. Might have a table. So, you know, sometimes the 20 bucks a night feels worth it. So I like, I would say, like, some months we might, like, be in a campground, almost none. Other months, like, maybe close to the whole month, I’d say maybe, like half and half. So yeah, we did have some camping expenses. I would say food, you know, depends on, like, how good you are at cooking, you know, and cooking in your van. So, yeah, some people like eat out a whole lot, and that adds up, but it’s kind of like the same way at home, right? We cooked a lot in our van, and so it’s pretty similar, comparable expenses.

Jeff Barber 45:36
So, yeah, you kind of touched on it. You know, after some years on the road, living full time out of the van, you decided to settle in one place again. So what led to that decision for you?

Greg Heil 45:52
Honestly, the reasons aren’t sexy, but they’re real. So I mean, the main number one reason was both of us were have dealing with different types of medical issues, and I especially needed to do many months of physical therapy to deal with some things, which is, you know, it’s one thing, like, you know, to have an appointment, or, like, get in for appointment when you’re on the road. You know, possible. But like, you know, once or twice a week physical therapy for months on end is pretty impossible. So, so that was the number one reason. The other one is like, at some point working with both of us working in such a confined space for so long, it’s like, got pretty challenging. So again, it’d be way more fun if you’re not working. You just like, be unemployed and out there. But you know, we were both holding down full time jobs and doing this. So again, super sexy reasons, but that’s kind of like the reality of the situation.

Jeff Barber 46:48
Well, yeah, you mentioned that you still have the van. So how do you use it now that you’re that you are settled in one place, but, but you still got the van.

Greg Heil 47:01
I use the van in so many different ways. It’s still, like, so great to have, and we really love having around. Everything from just like, quick weekend trips up into the mountain, which gonna leave this afternoon and pop it up into the mountains, because the van’s been in the shop for like, three weeks. So excited to use it again. Yeah, everything from that to, we went to Arkansas for work, and we’re down there for close to three weeks, and this winter, hoping to spend, like, maybe a month, maybe two, in Arizona, getting out of the snow. So everything from weekenders, like, up to like, you know, a month or two, like, still, like popping out and like finding good weather somewhere, you’ll also find, like, when you have a van you’ve kind of, like, start finding you can use in ways to, like, save you quite a bit of money on lodging. So like, for instance, our countries, you know, our families are on, like, the eastern side of the USA. So road trips, you know, you don’t pay for hotels anymore. You know, if you’ve got a early flight out of an airport that’s not in your hometown, like, you can sleep in the airport parking lot instead of, like, paying for a hotel. So there’s all these ways, like, it comes in handy, for sure.

Jeff Barber 48:07
That’s nice. And I don’t think we mentioned it, but yeah, I mean, you ended up settling in Durango. Was that, like, a spot that you had visited while you were living van life, and really liked it. Like, were you scouting and thinking about that? Like, maybe, maybe we’ll settle down in one of these places one day?

Greg Heil 48:28
So you come back to, like, the what town is best? And yeah, hedged a bit on that, because, like, yeah, I live I’ve been a Colorado resident for 12 plus years now. And, yeah, it was finally thing better anywhere. Basically, not sorry. I mean, sorry to everywhere else. But, like, I love Colorado, so again, different town in Colorado, but Durango is super special. And again, you got to think about the entire package of what you want out of place when you live there full time versus when you’re visiting. For instance, like, I love spending time in Moab. I don’t quite know that I want to live there full time. Now. It’s only three hours away, so it’s pretty great. However, I will say, like, if Canada were to ever let me in, there’s a lot of places in BC I could see living. So British Columbia is, is an amazing place with a lot of a lot of towns that I could probably see living in, yeah, yeah, but that’s Colorado. Called us back. It’s gonna be here.

Jeff Barber 49:31
Well, do you, do you think you would ever go back to full time travel, you know, maybe at a different life stage, or something like that. Or do you think that chapters is kind of closed?

Greg Heil 49:45
Also, we talk about it like almost every week. Going back, I think it might take, for me, it might take a different life stage, most likely, yeah, like maybe a little bit, but I have a hard time. Sitting in one place for too long. So even if I’m in, you know, Durango for you two months, I’m like, Alright, like, well, what are we doing? Like, what’s the next thing? So I think, yeah, we’ll most likely go back to full time travel, but for now, like, just kind of traveling in different ways, like, so having the van still makes it like easy to do these trips that, like otherwise might take a lot more planning and prep and while living somewhere I’m taking advantage of different types of travel, like more international travel over the past couple years, which has been nice.

Jeff Barber 50:34
Well, Greg, thanks so much for sharing your story. It’s been awesome following your journey, and I’m sure a lot of our listeners are going to be inspired, or at least they’re going to be van curious after hearing this. So thanks. Thanks for having me, Jeff, and thanks to everyone for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast and be sure to check Singletracks for the latest trail news. Catch you on the next episode. Peace.