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So I’ve been riding my new GF for a couple of months now, and for the most part have been pleased (except for the grips, tires, and saddle, but I digress…).
Two things I have noticed that are bothering me. Often in a standing stance I feel like I am too far over the bars. Since I am standing, I don’t think it can be saddle position, but this brings me to my second point…
On long rides especially, my neck and shoulders get tense and start to burn. It’s very uncomfortable, and I never had that problem on my old HardRock.
Through my research, I have found that my discomfort could be due to saddle position, saddle height, or saddle tilt; handlebar width or height, poorly sized bike, bad posture, a combination of them all, and possibly others that I haven’t stumbled across yet. Big question: where to start?
Out of curiosity, last night I measured the width of my old handlebars and the width of my new ones. My new ones are 3 inches wider than my old ones. I started thinking – could this be the problem? And if it is, it seems logical that it could also be why I feel like I am too far over the front of the bike: since my arms are in a wider position, is my torso compensating by moving forward?
My biggest fear is that I went too small on the frame (I got the 17.5 Med instead of the 19 LG ). I hope that it is some of these other items that I can adjust and experiment width. I’m pretty much stuck with the frame size.
I’m going to start tweaking a couple of things and see if that helps, but if anybody has had similar experiences, or has suggestions of where to start, I’d appreciate it.
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I’m certainly no expert on ergonomics, but from a practical (and pocketbook) sense, why not swap your old bars onto the new frame for a couple rides. It sounds like your gut feeling is leaning towards the bars, and the reasons seem sound, so rule that out first…
Shouldn’t take all that long, unless of course the bar diams are incompatible at the stem in which case, nothing to see here, move along…
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Those wider bars could be the culprit because of the 3 extra inches,that would bring your torso more forward because your arms are now more spread apart.Also,if you had your other bike for awhile and are use to it,it’ll take a little while for your body to get used to the new bike.A bike is a bike,but there are differences in geometry from bike to bike no matter how small and your body will notice those differences even if you do not realize them(hence the sore body parts).Another thing that crossed my mind reading your post is top tube length,how much difference is there between top tube lengths from you old bike to your new bike?It really sound like your supporting more of your body weight with your arms with the new bike and that would be more of a cross country style riding position so you might want to think about a higher rise stem.My stumpjumper comes with a riser stem that when turned around rises a litte higher than in the other position,I turned it to the higher position after I bought my stumpjumper because of the same issue you have stated,so think about that.
Just curious,but how do you feel on your seat in comparison to your rear wheel?Do you feel like you sit more above it than your other bike?Also,how tall are you? -
Thanks guys.
I haven’t had a lot of time this week to make adjustments, but last night I put the bikes side by side. The old bars had no rise, but the stem was raised a bit. The new bars are risers but still sit a bit lower compared to the old ones. I think I will start there by raising the stem.
I think you are right about supporting more weight with my arms. My arms were sore the day after my last ride. I don’t recall that in the past either, and before I had no front suspension to soften the ride. I am not sure about the top tube length comparisons, but I guess you are implying a shorter tube length could cause this, right? Aside from a new frame, what are my options here?
In my side-by-side comparison, it seemed my pedals/cranks were more forward on my old bike in relationship to the rest of the frame. It seems that if the pedals are further back, it might cause the upper body to sit further for forward.
By the way, I am about 6 ft tall, 160 lbs.
I appreciate your comments and suggestions. I’ll try a few of them out, and keep you posted. Hopefully, a few adjustments and, as you said, letting my body get used to the new set up, will be all I need to make things better.
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Part of what gives Fisher their characteristic handling is the realtionship between the top and downtubes to the rear triangle. They are built to put the rider over the rear wheel as far as possible. If you are leaning to far forward it is most likely that the top tube is too long not too short. You can make small adjustments by moving the seat farther forward and getting a shorter and higher stem. This should draw the handlebars back and up toward you while moving your waist closer to the front. Narrower bars will also help but if you go to small they will restrict your breathing and change the steering dynamics. If you do any of this you need to be aware of your knee position as the cranks can’t move with you. I would take your bike to the LBS and have them assist with fitting the bike and new stem. Keep in mind that the bike you have is a cross country bike and the geometry was designed for that. There will only be a certain amount of changing and tweaking that can be done. I hope you get it worked out, you have a good bike…
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My biggest fear is that I went too small on the frame (I got the 17.5 Med instead of the 19 LG ). I hope that it is some of these other items that I can adjust and experiment width. I’m pretty much stuck with the frame sizeSo I’ve been riding my new GF for a couple of months now
Yeah,I think I would be a little fearful of that smaller frame.I’m 6’2" and ride an XL,the biggest specialized makes for the stumpjumper.
I’m curious dude,where did you buy your GF from?And,how or what process did you use to size the bike before you bouhgt it?That frame size is really making me wonder.
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"steve32300" wroteMy biggest fear is that I went too small on the frame (I got the 17.5 Med instead of the 19 LG ). I hope that it is some of these other items that I can adjust and experiment width. I’m pretty much stuck with the frame size
[quote:ais0oewx]So I’ve been riding my new GF for a couple of months now
Yeah,I think I would be a little fearful of that smaller frame.I’m 6’2" and ride an XL,the biggest specialized makes for the stumpjumper.
I’m curious dude,where did you buy your GF from?And,how or what process did you use to size the bike before you bouhgt it?That frame size is really making me wonder.[/quote:ais0oewx]
I test rode the 19 inch frame, but my arms were completely locked out so it felt too big. For the 17.5, I did the standover test (for top tube clearance) and it was good, and I rode it around the back of the shop for a while (a couple of different times). Everything felt pretty good then, but once I started getting some long rides under my belt, I started feeling the discomfort.
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"Devin_P" wrote
Part of what gives Fisher their characteristic handling is the realtionship between the top and downtubes to the rear triangle. They are built to put the rider over the rear wheel as far as possible. If you are leaning to far forward it is most likely that the top tube is too long not too short. You can make small adjustments by moving the seat farther forward and getting a shorter and higher stem. This should draw the handlebars back and up toward you while moving your waist closer to the front. Narrower bars will also help but if you go to small they will restrict your breathing and change the steering dynamics. If you do any of this you need to be aware of your knee position as the cranks can’t move with you. I would take your bike to the LBS and have them assist with fitting the bike and new stem. Keep in mind that the bike you have is a cross country bike and the geometry was designed for that. There will only be a certain amount of changing and tweaking that can be done. I hope you get it worked out, you have a good bike…
I measured my top tube, and it is actually a half-inch or inch shorter than on my old HardRock. I’m gonna try a couple of adjustments mentioned on this thread, and see how things feel. I like the idea of going back to the LBS to get their feedback too.
I rode about 7.5 miles last night (with no adjustments) and had the same discomfort. Although, I don’t feel it in my shoulders and neck today like I did last time out. Unfortunately, I’m not going to be able to go on any long rides to test out my adjustments for about a week and a half.
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"fleetwood" wrote
So I’ve been riding my new GF for a couple of months now, and for the most part have been pleased…
On long rides especially, my neck and shoulders get tense and start to burn. It’s very uncomfortable..
I’m going to start tweaking a couple of things and see if that helps, but if anybody has had similar experiences, or has suggestions of where to start, I’d appreciate it.
Oh Gary Fisher. Umm, never mind… 😮
I’m not sure I saw it mentioned, but you can look at the length of the stem too.
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"maddslacker" wrote
Oh Gary Fisher. Umm, never mind… 😮
What do you mean?
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I took a look at my stem, but I cannot figure out how to raise the bars. It seems I need additional spacers (for lack of a better word). After scratching my head for a few seconds, I retreated to the house to find the manual.
According to my manual, I have a "direct-connect stem" and "adjusting the handlebar height on a direct-connect stem affects the headset bearing adjustment. This procedure requires speical tools and training so this should only be done by your dealer". 😠 😏
Firreal?
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"fleetwood" wrote
[quote="maddslacker":37d0rgdn]
Oh Gary Fisher. Umm, never mind… 😮What do you mean?[/quote:37d0rgdn]
Hahahaha i was totally going to say something, but decided against it!!
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"Goo" wrote
[quote="fleetwood":2tyzk6z5][quote="maddslacker":2tyzk6z5]
Oh Gary Fisher. Umm, never mind… 😮What do you mean?[/quote:2tyzk6z5]
Hahahaha i was totally going to say something, but decided against it!![/quote:2tyzk6z5]
Can someone let me in on the joke?
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First, can you include a pic of your headset, or otherwise confirm that it is a standard threadless model?
If it is, then yes you can move the spacers around to raise or lower it, given you have some extra space to work with.
GF [i:2nw5m3ib]could[/i:2nw5m3ib] be construed as girlfriend… 😼
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"maddslacker" wrote
GF [i:2d2tg0bq]could[/i:2d2tg0bq] be construed as girlfriend… 😼
I’d say typically construed as girlfriend 😼
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"maddslacker" wrote
First, can you include a pic of your headset, or otherwise confirm that it is a standard threadless model?
If it is, then yes you can move the spacers around to raise or lower it, given you have some extra space to work with.
I don’t have an actual picture handy, but it looks basically like Figure 2 at this link: http://www.bike-manual.com/brands/bontr … T/stem.htm
Not sure about the standard threadless model part. I will take a pic when I am back home and let you see it.
When I loosened the steerer bolt clamps (there was also a bolt that went down from the top), I was able to raise the stem. There were two existing spacers. It seemed if I had another spacer or two, I could have handled it. I couldn’t figure out how to secure it without additional spacers. I assume that is how it works, and that I could get those spacers from my LBS?
How concerned should I be about the warning to allow the dealer make the adjustments? What is the risk?
"maddslacker" wroteGF [i:2uafj38k]could[/i:2uafj38k] be construed as girlfriend… 😼
Ahhh, very good. Now I get it…don’t tell my wife, please. 😆
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You have, what most people call, a standard "threadless stem". It clamps onto the steering tube to turn the wheel left and right. It has a bolt through the top that connects to a star nut inside the steering tube to keep it from slipping off the top. Unfortunately, other than flipping it over, you have very limited adjustment of height on this type of stem if you already have the steering tube cut to height. You can always lower it by removing spacers at the bottom and sliding the stem down. However, you can only raise it to a certain height (~3mm) above the end of the steering tube without possibly damaging the stem and causing a catastrophic failure while riding. If you have already had your steering tube cut to the correct height, you are probably already at this point. The only other option you have if you want a higher hand placement is to get riser style handlebars or buy a new stem that has a higher angle.
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"GoldenGoose" wrote
You have, what most people call, a standard "threadless stem". It clamps onto the steering tube to turn the wheel left and right. It has a bolt through the top that connects to a star nut inside the steering tube to keep it from slipping off the top.
That sounds about right.
"GoldenGoose" wroteUnfortunately, other than flipping it over, you have very limited adjustment of height on this type of stem if you already have the steering tube cut to height.
I haven’t had anything cut. It is stock off the floor of the LBS. When I took a look last night, it seemed plausible (based on my obvious lack of expertise in this area) that additional spacers could be added. What does flipping it over do for me?
"GoldenGoose" wroteYou can always lower it by removing spacers at the bottom and sliding the stem down. However, you can only raise it to a certain height (~3mm) above the end of the steering tube without possibly damaging the stem and causing a catastrophic failure while riding. If you have already had your steering tube cut to the correct height, you are probably already at this point.
I guess this is where the recommendation of the trained bike mechanic comes into play, eh?
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If you can snap a pic, we can tell you exactly what yo can and can’t get away with, based on your current setup.
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"fleetwood" wrote
What does flipping it over do for me?
I guess this is where the recommendation of the trained bike mechanic comes into play, eh?
Flipping it over will reverse the angle of the stem. If it angles upward right now, flipping it over will make it angle downward. (NOT what you want.)
Putting a new stem on is pretty simple, really. You just need to make sure you don’t place it up so high on the steering tube that you could cause damage to the stem when it is clamped.
The nice thing about going to your LBS is that they will have multiple sizes of stems to try out. Remember, you can change the length AND the rise (angle) on the next stem you buy. However, large changes will also have a large impact on your bike’s handling.
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Here are some pics of what I have:
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Yeah dude,your stem is as high as it will go.So have you taken your bike to the LBS?They’ll deffinately be able to zero in on your best option for ya.Let us know where you at with it.
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Check out Easton stems they have them with different rises which will lift your bars up closer to you or get a riser bar with more of a rise. Those are your only option. Do not let some LBS try and sell you a stem extender they do not work well enough for trail duty.
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Thanks for your recommendations. I’ve been researching bars and stems this morning. I hope to get by the bike shop today to see what they think.
Is adding a headset spacer not an option because I will no longer be able to screw in the top bolt that keeps the stem attached?
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Not an option anymore. There should be a space of no more than 3-4mm from the top of the stem to the top of the steering tube. And that difference is only there for the top cap to be able to apply pressure to the bearings. Any more and the stem will not appy even pressure to the steering tube and possibly cause a failure.
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"fleetwood" wrote
Thanks for your recommendations. I’ve been researching bars and stems this morning. I hope to get by the bike shop today to see what they think.
Is adding a headset spacer not an option because I will no longer be able to screw in the top bolt that keeps the stem attached?
You will still be able to screw in the top clamp bolt but it wouldn’t have any thing to "clamp" onto and would weaken the steering tube and the stem. If you ruin your steering tube, you’ve ruined your fork (big money). If you ruin your stem, you better you hope you DON’T do it while you are on the bike. Face first into the front wheel CAN’T feel good.
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I’ve been out of town, and off my bike (boo!), but I got in an 11-mile ride this morning after adjusting my seat and my brake levers. Not sure those alone were the problem, but things felt better today. I still plan to get by the bike shop one of these days to see what else they can recommend. Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions.
😃
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sitting on your bike with foot on the pedals your arms should reach the grips with a slight bend at the elbow, if your arms are locked then the stem is too long, if your arms are too bent then its too short.
also check the height of the saddle to ensure that from standing next to it it should come up to your hip bone, the top of it, pretty much where your trousers/shorts rest,
that should solve the problem if your 6ft, about 183cm you will becoming to the end of the range of a medium frame, i found i have the arm length for a medium frame but the leg length of a large frame and i had to shorten the stem myself.
Dac
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i found i have the arm length for a medium frame but the leg length of a large frame and i had to shorten the stem myself
Me too,although I am opposite of you.I have longer arms compared to my legs.I ride the XL Stumpjumper but can adjust my seat to accomodate my legs being relatively shorter.Even at that,I am 6’2" and when I test rode the L stumpjumper,I could feel the handle bar ends at my knees when turning,and when I rode the XL SJ,it was just enough so I couldnt feel my knees with my bar ends when turning.My legs are only relatively shorter but not short,hahahhaaha.
also check the height of the saddle to ensure that from standing next to it it should come up to your hip bone, the top of it, pretty much where your trousers/shorts rest,Hey Dacorr,is that the way you get your seat height adjustment?Dont you adjust by sitting on the seat and adjusting it so that you have a slight bend in your knees when one pedal is at the bottom of it’s stroke,(BDC),and so that your hips are not rocking on the seat as you pedal?
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"steve32300" wrotei found i have the arm length for a medium frame but the leg length of a large frame and i had to shorten the stem myself
Me too,although I am opposite of you.I have longer arms compared to my legs.I ride the XL Stumpjumper but can adjust my seat to accomodate my legs being relatively shorter.Even at that,I am 6’2" and when I test rode the L stumpjumper,I could feel the handle bar ends at my knees when turning,and when I rode the XL SJ,it was just enough so I couldnt feel my knees with my bar ends when turning.My legs are only relatively shorter but not short,hahahhaaha.
[quote:1w5qc4gy]also check the height of the saddle to ensure that from standing next to it it should come up to your hip bone, the top of it, pretty much where your trousers/shorts rest,
Hey Dacorr,is that the way you get your seat height adjustment?Dont you adjust by sitting on the seat and adjusting it so that you have a slight bend in your knees when one pedal is at the bottom of it’s stroke,(BDC),and so that your hips are not rocking on the seat as you pedal?[/quote:1w5qc4gy]
having one leg straight will bend the other and i took it from there, generally the rear side of the saddle is pretty much level with my hip bone, the bit that sticks out. if i just sit on it i can barely reach to floor but i found that whether the shock is open or closed i am not cramped or over stretched its an acceptable middle ground.
once i sort out the possible leaking air shock i may try again to see if it still works for me.
Dac
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