Mark Weir Talks Will vs. Skill, Climbing 1M Feet in a Year, and His Almost Heart Attack [Podcast #211]

On this Episode

Note: This episodes contains language some listeners may find offensive.

Mark Weir is a legend in the mountain bike world, having won the Downieville Downhill eight times and making his mark at WTB as a demanding product tester over two decades. He even has a mountain bike tire named after him, the WeirWolf.

In this wide-ranging interview, we talk about enduro racing, climbing a million vertical feet in a year, his near heart attack, trail advocacy, and electric bikes. Mark is an entertaining guest who could easily host his own podcast, so you won’t want to miss this one. It’s already one of our favorites!

Here are some of the questions we asked.

• How is downhill endurance racing different from the more traditional, UCI-style downhill mountain bike racing?
• How does enduro racing connect with the ethos established in the early days of mountain biking?
• How and when did riders like yourself bring the French enduro race format to the US? Was there a natural transition from races like the Downieville Classic and super-D events to enduro, or was the change more abrupt?
• When did you start to see frame geometry and components shift in the enduro direction in the US?
• Based on your experience over the years, what’s more important in mountain biking: will or skills? Obviously, you need both, but what’s a good percentage split in your opinion?
• Last year you came dangerously close to suffering what’s known as a widowmaker heart attack. Part of your recovery following surgery has involved riding an e-bike. How has that helped you get back into riding and fitness?
• One of your many claims to fame is you climbed 1M vertical feet on your bike in a single year. Why did you set this as a goal for yourself? What did it take to make this happen?
• Mountain biking has taken you all over the world. What are some of the best trails that stand out in your mind?
• You’ve worked closely with WTB for at least a couple decades now. What are some of the projects you’re most proud to have been a part of? Where do you see opportunities for MTB product improvement in the future?

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Automated transcript

Jeff Barber 0:00
Hey everybody, welcome to the Singletracks podcast. My name is Jeff, and today my special guest is Mark Weir. Mark is a legend in the mountain bike world, having won the Downieville downhill eight times and making his mark at WTB as a demanding product tester over two decades. He even has a mountain bike tire named after him, the weir Wolf. Thanks for joining us, Mark.

Mark Weir
Oh, thanks for having me.

Jeff Barber
So you’re known as a really accomplished downhill endurance mountain biker. How’s that different from the more traditional, like UCI-style, downhill mountain bike race format?

Mark Weir 0:36
For me, when I started, it was definitely I really like to get outside. I really like to see new things. And when I was started racing downhill World Cup, I even did some, some cross country UCI events. But it those guys were so focused and so, like, built on, you know, the hamster cage that I couldn’t really be involved in as much because, A, I probably didn’t have the talent. B, I didn’t have the ability to sit there and do the same thing over and over again. It kind of drove me crazy. So with endurance and adventure, you know, I could do new things. I could on site stuff. I could see new places. That’s kind of what I was really into doing and and I love to suffer back then, so I wasn’t really ever at my top form. I was always kind of a little bit tired, but I always thought I could ride through it, but results would show otherwise.

Jeff Barber 1:34
So enduro mountain bike racing is obviously a hot format right now. How does that connect with sort of the ethos that was established in those early days of of sort of downhill racing and mountain biking in general.

Mark Weir 1:46
I mean, it was kind of, it’s funny, because we have a story back in probably 2002 with Curtis Keane, who was on our team at the time. And even back when, you know Sam Hill and Wacker and Justin have a Cano, like, all these Australians came to stay with me. It was interesting, because I would do these huge rides, and these guys weren’t used to that. They were super fast downhill racers, yeah, and I would take them on these drag out rides, and we bring like one soda pop, and we’d go do like 8k of climbing. And they were just, I would just drag him around, and, you know, like, Curtis was one of my buddies, and we would just go do these loops. And he never really done that stuff before. And he’s just like, this is really cool, but this is 2002 2001 and we even had it like Sam Hill when he first came here. We built up his first enduro bike from intense he didn’t have any of the parts staying with me for two weeks. And, well, if we build up this bike, you have to ride with me every day. And I would do this five, 7k day before I go to work, and he’d come with me. And it was one of those things that just is eye opening to see how much ground you can actually cover when you turn yourself into a motor. And just like, cover ground and not just be, you know, ready for a half an hour race or a four minute race, or a, you know, hour and a half cross country race, and you turn it into adventure. And just that, you’re always on power, your motor always makes power for a long time, and you get to see so much new stuff that it’s eye opening.

Jeff Barber 3:20
Yeah, yeah, that’s really cool. So you were one of the first American athletes to travel to France to race Enduro. So how and when did riders like yourself bring sort of that new format to the US?

Mark Weir 3:33
I mean, it was difficult. It’s like everything that’s ever kind of happened, you know, like I in the beginning, I had a single ring. I wrote a world force. It was a VP before Santa Cruz could even, you know, shit out the thought, you know. And world forest was also a Zonic before that. And it came from Outland. And I had this bike built up with a single ring, Mr. Dirt guide, the Zed one. And we do these rides, and that was kind of like, this bike works good. It sucks going uphill, but we could go places down that we could never go before. So in that beginning of all that was like, you know, people didn’t really understand it. And so when I started, like, the gravity dropper. You know, everyone had the height, right? You know, I tried that, and I put on the gravity dropper that Wayne sent me snizz from gravity dropper. He’s like, I got this thing. It was during that the million feet thing. He’s like, What are you doing on that VP free, you’re doing it with I did it half the year with my seat down. I just stood up everywhere. And I would tell her, I just told everyone, hey, where you’re sitting, I’m standing, and I stood everything, you know, and he’s all, try this seatpost, and they’re like, it’s ugly. Oh, that’s never gonna work.

Jeff Barber 4:52
And heavy too. I mean, was that a concern?

Mark Weir 4:57
Weight was never a concern, because I had horsepower, and I didn’t care. Because I wanted in Marin, you know, sometimes you have to get away from the man, you know, because we live in this police state. So with your chain dropping off, no chain guide, you’re out, like a three ring circus wasn’t going to work. That thing’s just going to get cramped in and then, you know, without your seat and your ass, and you’re on a travel bike, like a VP free, like I was on, you can’t ride that thing with a high seat. I got short legs, dude. I’m like, you know, 29 inch inseam with freaking huge body, top body. And so I did that. And people are like, yeah. And then it started work out. People like, Oh, that’s pretty cool. And then so I started it. Fred glow came over when I won, like, the third downyville downhill, I don’t really know the date. And Fred glow is, like, one of the originals. He was, like, the guy that, you know, he was back in them. It was FMF. They’re part of that tribe Sports Group, and Fred owns it, of course. And I took him on this ride. He had two days, and we did these huge rides in downeyville. And he’s like, You have to come to my event. And I’m like, okay, and and Gary, and, you know, at WTV is like, you got to go. You’re in good form. And that was probably, like 2005 or something. And went there. But I was really fit. I was racing road races. I did, like the TAM hill climb, one of the oldest hill climbs in Marin, like, 50 years old, and only five of us have gone under 40 minutes, you know. And that year I did, you know, and I was like, fast uphill, and there’s, you know, get, like, net over, and those guys never went under 40 minutes. And I was able to do it at 158 pounds. I’m 190 now, and go over there race the first Enduro. No one even speaks English. They’re not even getting Instructions in English. You’re going to do like, I think it’s three runs on Saturday and three, three different courses, three runs each time, no practice. And the tracks are long. They’re like, yeah, you can go walk the track if you want, but good luck. Each one’s going to take 30 to 40 minutes. So I’m like, Okay, let’s on site. And did I couldn’t. I went to Valois, one of my favorite venues for that tribe Sports Group, enduro, because it’s super pure top mountain stuff, wide open fields pegged, you know, really wide. Go where you want, but be aware of rocks in the tall grass. Yeah, and doing all that stuff, I was like, Oh my God, dude, this is like, nothing I’ve ever seen. You know, you can go where you want. And by the third run the track starts getting the hot line in it, you’re just going faster every time. And then the other run goes all the way down for that Sunday do two more courses that are long, and some of them, one of them was 9000 feet of descent down, and they ended with an old Roman way, mail way, and it was like the brake burner, you know. And I was after Saturday, I was running second, and then I won what, or I got second in the next the long downhill. So I was running good, and then I end up just tomahawking Because I just ran out of talent and on site through the goat trails are tough dude. Yeah, all those goat trails and you’re kind of jumping them straight and right fell in one, you know, broke my bike, broke my derailleur, my rear wheel up. Race was over, but when I came home, I’m like, you guys don’t understand it. There’s this other kind of racing that isn’t hamster style. You get to see all this terrain and see all this, you know, amazing culture, and you’re not worried about getting there on Tuesday. You’re like, I show up on Friday night or even Saturday morning, and I’m in the game. Like, no one has the benefit. I didn’t like practice. I don’t like when you can practice. I think you should practice like wherever you are, and ride and create situations where you’re uncomfortable and you don’t know where you’re going, because that’s like life, and that’s what that was to me. But coming back, people weren’t your magazines didn’t want to hear it, and I kept spewing, because I was writing that article in decline and and it was just one of those things. And it just took so much time to get people you’re just not good at downhill and you’re not good at xcm. Well, you might be right, but I’m really good at both of them together. And this is, yeah, it was the blend. And so it was, it was always a little bit of a battle. But it was, it was one that I was willing to fight because I felt so passionate about how it makes you feel.

Jeff Barber 9:27
Yeah, well, I mean, did you see parallels between, like, the downeyville Classic and some of the like super D events to Enduro? Or was it like something just totally different in your mind?

Mark Weir 9:39
Well, you know, in the beginning super D, well, downy Ville was, I think, a different animal. It’s a practiced event. It’s a long event. It’s basically point to point time trial. I wouldn’t call it a full downhill. It’s, you have to have a big motor to win that race, you know. But in the very, in the very beginning of downyville, it was way. They before, you know, they got in the EMBA rules and some of that, you know, switchback bullshit, you know, like that makes you just have to pedal out of corners. It was a straight shot, and you had to have a proper bike. You’re going mock chicken down some of this stuff. And they still have that, but they, you know, a lot of the stuff on butcher, the upper stuff, has been sanitized in a way that it turns into more of a physical battle. So I saw parallels, but I also saw it was a lot of practice. I spent a lot of time there, you know, I’m like, and I always said I’m, well, dude, I know it better than you, the only way like Jurgen benicky And I never really got along and that, you know, I had companies like SRAM and Rockshox sending people to take me out there, you know. I mean, it was miles Rockwell, I mean, you name the world champions that came to try and get me, and I would just put them in the ground. Well, how are you going to do it? I have to actually mechanical for you to beat me, because it’s not possible. And I would say that. I mean, I wasn’t that friendly to some people. Miles are just awesome. Jurgen, I I would talk and be like, at the top, just going, There’s no way you can beat me. And this before the start, you know, just being a total but that’s the way I had to be. I had a lot on the line. And when you did the FMF enduro back then, or those kind of enduro races, it was, it wasn’t like that. Everyone was like, Hey, be careful, be safe, you know, on site, and it was more of a camaraderie, instead of, like, I want to tear your legs off.

Jeff Barber 11:34
I mean, did you enjoy that more, or are you more the competitor? Sounds like you were starting some of it at downeyville.

Mark Weir 11:40
Yeah, yeah, no, I like to start it, and I, and I, you know, if I, it was kind of like something that fed me a bit like, if I, if I put my name on the line, I was willing to take the embarrassment or the victory. So I, I knew that there is, there is something you know going to happen. There is going to be a reaction and and doing those magazine and those interviews and like and bicycling with muxter style riders that are, you know, mixing my words and stuff, you know, I didn’t mind it, because I’m like, You know what? I don’t care. It’s going to bring more people. It’s going to be more attention, and it’s going to change how people see about biking, and we’re going to get more trails out of it, more people, more trails power numbers, and that’s kind of always been a large focus, too, for access. But when the super D started, I super D was kind of super dumb, but like in the beginning, it was actually pretty cool. We did Old World Cup courses, like at Vermont and Big Bear, like all the courses that felt too safe, you know. And Eric Carter wanted big jumps and stuff, so they changed courses, and they just kept these old tracks, and we raced, you know, those on mass starts, Le Mans starts, which I don’t agree with. Cyclists shouldn’t run. We look stupid. It’s like, but it was still, it was, you know, Jordy Lund, I mean, Johnny Waddell, you have all these guys doing these races, and it was actually really fun. And then they, then they kept making it lamer, and lamer just to make more money, in my opinion, with the Super D name, you know, like it sea otter. I mean, what a joke. That’s, that’s, that’s just lame, you know, like, I wouldn’t race that. It’s not fun. I don’t want to do stuff isn’t fun. So that, so I did, like, the first two years of super D, but after I kept going to Europe, I just, I couldn’t wrap my head around it anymore. I just felt like a waste of time. It didn’t feel like I was doing it for me. I did it for other reasons, and that wasn’t why I was riding bikes.

Jeff Barber 13:35
Yeah, well, as a format, I mean, enduro definitely seems to be the most fun way that you can race your mountain bike. Totally agree. So, when did you start to notice that, like frame geometry and components were shifting sort of in that enduro direction here in the US?

Mark Weir 13:52
Well, I mean, for me, I had a custom bike that was, I was, I was on Santa Cruz for a long time before Roscoff got too big for his Italian slippers, and he they would make me custom bikes, and I had 64 degree head angle back in 2000 probably four, maybe even sooner.

Jeff Barber 14:12
What was that compared to, like a downhill bike at that time?

Mark Weir 14:15
Probably a little bit, maybe a little bit slacker, because they were 66 but I was running low BBs, and you know that I had Fox suspension on there. That was, you know, well too, but shorter travels, you know, it’s like 150 more in the 150 range. But the bike handled really well when you were at speed on steep terrain. And you needed that. You needed to be lazy on that stuff, especially when you don’t know where you’re going. So when Santa Cruz built me my I polished, you know, Nomad when they first came out, I’m like, we need it this slack and, you know, Rob’s like, we can’t do that for the consumers. They’re not ready for it. They need, they need steep angles. They’re still high posters. They got want long. Dems because they like, you know, steering a bus. And I’m like, Dude, it’s, it can’t be this way. It works so much better like this. It was one of those things that I wrote. Rode that bike for four years, and after that, I gave it to Marco Osborne, not even that long ago, before he got on Cannondale and he he won a bunch of races on that thing. It was, it was. It was a pretty geometry correct bike for that era that was, like, pretty ahead of its time. People would get on and be like, the flat corners, it kind of pushes. I’m like, Well, don’t ride flat corners that are like, not get a new bike or get a new style. You got to get over the front end. It was a whole new way of riding for us to be able to go down steep stuff and have your chin over the hub, front hub, you’re, like, attacking, you know.

Jeff Barber 15:47
Well, I mean, I guess it takes, it took a strong rider like you, that that could, you know, ride it uphill as well as downhill, to prove that that was something that people wanted and that people could handle, I guess?

Mark Weir 16:01
Yeah, I mean, it’s true, and I had a lot of guidance. You know, nickusbuyo is my first, that first race over there in France. He sees me, and he’s on the chairlift, and he sees me at the top of the hill. He’s like, I don’t really, I don’t even know this. I know who he is. You know, freaking guys, my hero. And he saw chin up. Chin up. Mark, you’re going fast enough. You will hurt yourself. Put your chin up. Look ahead. And I’m like, oh. And then Fabian Burrell, the same way, always really helped me with setup, you know, like transfer bonds. Fabians, like, Dude, we got to change something. You just beat me on this, because my setup would be like, bars rolled forward because the cockpit was too small, but I spent most of my time standing uphill. He’s like, he’s like, you can’t have both. You can’t you’re gonna have one of the other. You can’t be comfortable climbing, because you’re gonna die going downhill with that way. So there is a lot of there’s a huge learning curve from these people that just knew way more than me, and had way more talent too. So I just had drive and and they had, they had the vision to help me out. And I appreciate that.

Jeff Barber 17:09
Yeah, well, yeah, that’s, that’s a nice segue into my next question. I mean, based on your experience over the years, which is more important in mountain biking, is it? Is it will or skills? I mean, obviously you need both. But what would you say is, like a good split for for being successful in mountain biking?

Mark Weir 17:28
I mean, I think if all the really skilled people actually had will, there would be a ton of competition. But I think there’s, there’s few few that are truly gifted and few that actually have the will to use it. I mean, I would take a bunch of will over skill, because you can, you can learn skill to a certain extent, or just make your make your strong points extra strong, and your weakness is just a time where you have to be patient. That’s kind of what I was. I wasn’t willing to gap the huge gaps, or I was willing to go real fast on rough terrain downhill, because I’m really good at that kind of style, just floating over rough at really high rates of speed. But you know, if it came to like it, you had to do some weird, technical jump over a rock or something like that. I would just have to be patient over that, because that skill set is something that’s born and not given, and there’s a lot of practice, but you can’t practice an awkward rock jump just anywhere. It just is something that’s there, you know. So yeah, for me, I would be okay, well, I’m gonna bleed her hemorrhage a little time here, but I had a huge motor. I’m all there’s no way anyone’s gonna pedal out of this harder than me. So I used a big motor, and the skills where I had it, and the will for the skill I didn’t have.

Jeff Barber 18:47
Well, how important are is, like fitness and that sort of thing, for the transitions. I mean, would you say that makes a big difference between sort of the top competitors in Enduro?

Mark Weir 18:58
Oh, yeah. I mean that that is like, if you can be fresh every time, because you’re so fit. I mean, that’s what I was doing back then. I was transitions. I was riding eight hours a day, you know? I was like, geez, I didn’t even, that’s all I did. Like, I spent most of my time riding my bike and just, I mean, I would do anywhere from five to 8k a day, every day, wow, I’d eat a lot of food and just sit there and and mix the pedals. And that was something that I knew, that I could, I could accelerate and recover faster than anyone. I mean, that’s how the hell ride was spawned, you know, just breaking people off, come and join us, you know. And that was, it was like an endurance of power and just being able to push that, that peak performance, for long periods of time. And that’s what enduro was so intoxicating to me. I’m like this. It was made for me, you know, and, and no one’s doing it, dude, it’s a small pond I need to dominate now.

Jeff Barber 19:57
It’s not gonna last. Yeah. Wow. I. Right place at the right time. I know, crazy, so it sounds like in terms of your training as well. I mean, was recovery a big part of that? I mean, or did you? Did you just hammer, Hammer, hammer, hammer?

Mark Weir 20:12
You know, like there is during that million feet thing, that was the hardest thing ever. I got married. I reached 32 times in 11 months, I did a million feet, and by the time it was over, I did 1,175,000 I was just pushing and pushing, and I got, like, I got this weird cough in the middle of it, because it was raining a lot, and I’d ride through these colds, and I ended up, one time riding up this steep climb behind my house, and I was coughing so hard, like those wicked dry coughs, that my jaw dislocated. Oh, geez, and I’m just stuck there with my mouth wide. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen or had that. I mean, I had a buddy do it in high school from the over yon, and because he was real tired in science class, and the science teacher came out and, you know, you pull the jaw out and put it back in. And I had to do that to myself. I was just like, in the rain, like, because you can’t really breathe that well when your jaw is disconnected and you’re panicking. So I had a bunch of stuff going on, and I never recovered. But then, like farentino always told me, because I was living with them during the downyville days, is all in a year from now, you’re going to be going so freaking fast. And he was right. That was 2008 like beginning. 2008 was my fastest, you know, I was always, like, in the lead group of, like, national crits on road biking. I was one every race I entered, but it took that long to rebound. And like, you know, take recovery into perspective and diet and, you know, really get thin skin. You know, if I didn’t have veins all the way across my belly, I was doing shit wrong. And, you know, I was eating well, I mean, it was, it was just, I was a very grumpy person back then.

Jeff Barber 22:00
Well, for those who aren’t familiar, I mean, you you set a goal of climbing a million feet on your bike in a year. Why did you set that as a goal? I mean, was that just a training thing, or was it, was it kind of its own competition with yourself?

Mark Weir 22:14
It was weird, because I was doing this thing with motion base, which turned into Garmin and all that, and it was like, basically just storing GPS in all your rides. So I’m like, okay, and I got about two to three months in, and this guy, Mike Maxim, who was, like, the guy that was sponsoring me on that, he’s like, dude, I’m looking at your file here, and you’re on, you could climb a million feet this year, if you just keep this up.

I didn’t even know, you know, I just, I didn’t know anything about it. I was, it was how I’ve been riding, you know, I’ve probably done over 800,000 feet numerous times in a year, and I just don’t track it anymore. But, and he’s like, you could do it. So I’m like, okay, she’s all, here’s two more Garmins, because people are going to call you out, because the 10% whatever you know, because the terrain mapping wasn’t breadcrumbing Like it is these days, yeah. And I’m all, let’s do this. And I started doing it, and I got to about six, 700,000 feet of climbing, and I was like, Man, I it was hard to drag yourself out of bed, but I was like, now I set this, and there’s no way I can’t do it now, you know, like I got and then everyone started talking about it. Failure was like something that was the worst thing that could happen. You know, like losing at anything you put your mind to and told people you were doing would have been an embarrassment to me, so I That’s why I went over so much farther, you know. And I think I only did, I did like over, I think close to 200,000 feet of it came from racing, and then around 75k came from road biking, and the rest was all on this. VP, free, just an anchor. I still have the bike hanging on my ceiling. Wow. It was just one of those things on 38 tooth ring with an 1132 cassette with, you know, seat always down, and just standing at my house, I can, I can collect elevation like no other place I’ve ever been, it’s like, It’s so steep and the downhills are fast, and then you just turn around and do it again.

Jeff Barber 24:27
Well, that may be the more amazing part to me, that you did it all with your seat down.

Mark Weir 24:32
Yeah? Well, I did half the year, and that’s when Wayne found me, because of all the press. And he’s like, I have this gravity dropper, and it was the pin pole one on the seat, but still it was like, you know, legendary fast compared to just your seat collar clamp. It was only a three inch drop. But back then, that was enough, you know, right? So that made a big difference. But I didn’t. I still couldn’t sit down and pedal because I heard my muscles were made different ways, just big old butt from just like, pedal and staying. Mean, yeah, and seated pedaling just felt like just a yes, just numbing, numbing the junk like nothing else, right? Because the slack seat angles on those bikes were just crap. You know, this head angle was okay, but slack seat angles and pedaling them like do, why are these bikes like this, you guys and like, like that bike I told you about how to steeper seat angle, slacker head tube. You know it was, it was well in front of its head time.

Jeff Barber 25:26
Yeah, interesting. So last year, a lot of folks probably know this, you came close to suffering what’s known as a Widowmaker heart attack. And from what I read, part of your recovery following a surgery involved riding an E bike. How’s that helped you sort of get back into riding and fitness?

Mark Weir 25:45
Yeah, it’s pretty, uh, interesting, you know, like, coming from a guy that everyone’s like, you’re so fit. I’m like, yeah, it doesn’t matter, dude, if you store plaque, you store plaque. But I was accelerated use, you know, I was, you know, riding for 20 years at a level that burned a lot of calories. And at that time, I thought that I was more like an inferno, or like something that just burned, yeah, everything that went in, it’s not true. It still has to pass through the pipes. You see, you know, you eat steak or bacon, you eat, you know, fatty, fatty foods like that. It still has to run through the pipe, pipes, and it still can build up. So, you know, I didn’t think this could happen. So, you know, when going into that, it lasted six weeks, you know, because I wasn’t, I’m like, it’s from chopping wood, because I was chopping a lot of wood and getting stuff ready for the winter, so that, that same soreness, that’s what it feels like, center, of the chest, shoulders and in the elbow bends, you get this weird pain every time I kind of started up on my rides, and I’m like, Ah, but then I push harder because I’m like, This doesn’t feel right. So I’d go harder. When I went harder, because I have a bunch of collateral veins that go around the clot, it would, I’d feel good again, because I’m using these other, other veins that are going around it, so I’m feeding everything I need, but at a moderate pace, it hurt like it’s the weirdest, most uncomfortable pain I ever had. But I saw every day, I just go harder. I go harder. And then when I did the tyabi Crest Trail with a bunch of friends for seven days. I was just like, Man, I don’t, I just don’t feel good. We’re like, you know, 10, 8000 feet in that range, and we’re out there. I mean, that’s the loneliest highway in the world, at least in the country, and we’re, I’m like, and it was, it was one of those things. I didn’t think I could die from it. But I wasn’t, obviously thinking clear. I’m like, why am I still sore from three weeks ago? And when I came home, I tried to go for a ride, and I’m like, You know what? This ain’t right? And called my wife. I’m all, you know what? I need to go into the hospital and go get checked out. And when I went in there, they’re like, Jesus, man, 99% blockage on the one that kills people. And I’m like, really? So into the caf lab. Instantly, they give me some new plumbing. They’re like, if you didn’t have all of these veins going around the clot, you’d be done. And I still got a couple blockages on the other side that are, you know, 20 or 30% which they don’t stint until they’re 70. So I get that to look forward to. I’ve definitely changed my diet a bit. You know, I don’t really eat red meat and bacon and cheese anymore. There’s so many ways of thought. I just get confused by it.

Jeff Barber 28:33
Nobody seems to know exactly right.

Mark Weir 28:37
And life, it lasted till I was 46 so, you know, I life’s a crap shoot. I take it as it comes, and I don’t want to just change my happiness to get, like, five more years. I’d rather be really happy right now and deal with what I got and just, you know, try and try and be good to myself, but it’s hard in the lifestyle that I’m in.

Jeff Barber 28:59
Yeah, well, I mean, is it is part of it hereditary, or is it, is it mostly diet? In your case?

Mark Weir 29:05
No, definitely hereditary. For me, my grandfather had a heart attack at 36 which is the guy who gives you, you know, my male pattern baldness. Also, he gave me some real thanks, grandpa. Yeah, he was a badass man, and and one of my best friends, he lived to leave 70 and, you know, he, he said that to me, you know, you’re probably gonna have same stuff I got and, and I didn’t believe any of it. I’m like, I’ll exercise all that away. You can’t, you can exercise the demons away, but you can’t exercise your fate. You know, that’s just kind of what you’re born with. So you have to adjust, compensate. And, you know, they sit there and tell you the drugs fix most of it, you either got to trust them or, you know, just, I just go with the swing and just see what happens.

Jeff Barber 29:54
Well, it’s a really good message. I mean, I think a lot of us who are into mountain biking and fitness and. Eating healthy and doing all of those things, kind of maybe we think we’re a little bit invincible, and it’s always good to remind ourselves that that’s not the case, and you do all those right things, but you know that’s no guarantee.

Mark Weir 30:14
Yeah. I mean, just when you think you can, like removing a tree that you’ve always done, and all sudden it lands on you, and you break your back, your sacrum and your pelvis, and you’re in a wheelchair, and you’re like, What the hell happened there? Dude? I thought I had it handled. That’s just a more brutal way to look at it, because it comes at you in the form of a tree, but when it comes at you internally, and you can’t see it, and all you can do is kind of feel it, but you don’t know what’s going on, it’s very, it’s a very scary time, and, you know, uncomfortable for your family. I don’t like my kids. Seeing me do that, my wife, you know, she’s, she’s like, one of my she’s my best friend in the world. So to put them through those kind of things makes you think twice about how you treat yourself, because it’s not about you at this point. No more.

Jeff Barber 31:00
Yeah, yeah. I mean, for me personally, that reading your story and hearing about it definitely makes me more conscious of, you know, how I’m feeling and what my body’s doing and again, yeah, realizing that anything can happen to anybody, and you gotta, you gotta take care of yourself.

Mark Weir 31:19
Yeah. I mean, it’s just having that at the same way of what enduro is. It’s on site, it’s chin up. You got to look through life like you ride a bike, you know. I mean, a lot of a lot of stuff that I’ve learned came from hard work because of dirt and berms, building pump tracks and building community. You know, I was just telling my kid I had all him and his buddies over to reopen my pumptrack in the backyard. Well, you got to know what this dirt represents. It represents freedom. It represents a choice, and it represents hard work that’s going to go into you might not be a professional biker or get paid to ride bikes, but this is going to teach you how to work like work ethic, like sweat, build a callus, do something you know, make yourself feel pain, to get something out of it, to share it with the community. The stronger your community is, the stronger you are. And that’s like a lot of the focus I’ve had in my life.

Jeff Barber 32:11
Well, yeah, I do want to hear too about how you’ve been using the E bike. Are you still riding e bikes in terms of your recovery? Or how’s that fit in?

Mark Weir 32:20
It’s crazy. I love, I love my E bike. I mean, I got into mountain biking when I was a little kid, or, like, riding, let’s just say, riding bikes. First time I did it was for freedom, right? You get on a bike, you’re like, holy, did I got wheels and and all sudden, you’re rolling around. I can get away from mom. I get I can make space, like there’s, there’s nobody’s business. And then I got in it, you know, for fun, and then freedom, freedom. Then fun. It was like, just fun. I just did it for fun. But then when I got it in my 20s, I got it into it for suffering, like I was a hunter. I had to hunt for suffering. I had to be macho, you know. I basically needed to bring home the beef, you know. And that lasted a long time, you know. And after the I was still doing it up until the the Widowmaker hit. So then when I see my doctor about it, after the fact and everything, I tell him what I’m doing. He’s like, What in the hell are you doing? Like you can’t that’s not what you can do anymore. Not no man should do that after 40 like, that amount of suffering. It’s not good for you. Interesting. It’s like you’re taxing the stuff that I showed him all of my, you know, basically my heart rate, my watts, like my sleep rate, like all these things you can put together on this one training program. And he’s like, look at that, dude. He’s like, You are not even recovered. You’re taxing your ass a lot. That’s just wearing you out early, basically. I mean, that’s why all these triathletes die early. I mean, you’re just you’re revving your motor for a long time. And then I show them my E bike. I can control my rate of exercise, my breath, my heart rate, and I have so much more damn fun. Like, I’m not into suffering anymore. I’m kind of over it. I like, I like the feeling of exercise. I like, I mean, that’s why people don’t like, there’s such a small population truly gets into this kind of mountain biking is because it hurts, and people, a lot of people, just don’t want to suffer. The E bike takes that all away. You can suffer if you want, but you don’t have to. So you can control so much more. And it’s all about control these days. And, you know, compressing the file all of a sudden, you take a three hour ride that takes an hour and a half, but you still got that mental stimulation from what you needed, which, for me, it’s downhill. For me, it’s like hitting trail and being outdoors, chin up, looking around and seeing my surroundings. On a regular bike, I’d be staring at my fork tubes because I’m still suffering because it’s so steep. So I love my E bike. I do two battery rides almost every day. I do almost eight to 10. K, 10k, half days, and that’s what I do every day. And it’s like, I I still don’t I mean, people will argue with me because they’re still macho and they don’t understand it, I think quite yet, or they’ve never done it, I still don’t know if I ever need a regular bike. I mean, the way it’s going, I’m having so much damn fun on these new E bikes that it’s just one of those things. I’m like, I want to, I don’t live forever, man. I don’t need to prove anything to you guys. I really want to have fun, and I want to ride with the people that I missed for freaking 15 years that stopped riding now they’re all with me back and I have a bigger riding group. We’re all on E bikes and, you know, and all of them are, are not even mountain bikers. They they were a long time ago, but they’re guys that just weren’t mountain bikers, and now they’re in the game, and that’s going to create access, that’s going to create power numbers. And, you know, just like Tahoe National Forest, we’ve worked on for two years with Bosch and people for bikes and WTV and Sierra buttes trail stewardship. We’ve worked on access at the national level through the National Forest, and they just made schedule 1e bikes legal in the National Forest, which is a huge thing. Oh, wow. And that’s people don’t get it. These people are getting so, like, you shouldn’t be there because you don’t deserve it, kind of thing, which I don’t like people judging people. I don’t think that’s fair. You don’t know their life, right? You’re not them, and just because you’re fit does not make you better, you know? And if you wanted to be at the top of that mountain by yourself, that ship may have sailed, you might have to get the hell out of California, okay? Because there’s a lot of people here, and we can change the way people look at exercise, create safer routes to school and stuff like that, like WTV does because of this E bike and power numbers and people go, why can’t I ride there? I don’t know anything about this mountain bike problem. And when you have that many, the amount of people that are going to come into the E bike world that aren’t mountain bikers, is going to be something that will blow land managers away because they won’t know how to control it. Look, how Marin does it. Marin County is so lame. They’re so liberal, right? They think they know everything. They don’t let you do anything. It’s a police state. So they just say no. Mountain bikes are illegal everywhere you see how that’s worked out for them, right? They have so many social trails. It’s a complete dysfunctional machine, one of the worst things I’ve ever seen and how they control it. All they do, they’re supposed to make actual solutions. All they do is create more problems between user groups and fighting. It’s like, it’s ridiculous, and you’re like, you guys have to create solutions. People have to share their toys. If they don’t share their toys, people go make new toys and and that’s the way it’s worked here. And I’m like, you get people like, on the east coast, like, we want no E bikes, we have access issues. I’m all, dude, you guys don’t get it. If you say no, it doesn’t work, right? Because there’s going to be people that come in are not going to listen to you, and you’re going to get in a fist fight over you’re gonna lose it, dude, because it doesn’t make sense for you to fight something that’s going to come in such a wave that is unstoppable, you have to control it by rules and giving people what they need so they don’t take what you don’t give them and and that’s the that’s the problem that people, I Don’t think, can see yet. We have written illegally my whole life. That’s all I do over here. That’s all everyone does. That’s the way it is. Yeah, so we’re totally I go somewhere else or, like, you can’t ride there. I’ll says who? It’s not a moral issue. You can go yourself, dude, I’m gonna ride there because it doesn’t make sense to me that you can tell me I can’t, and this horse can. And you know, this the freaking big Ranger truck can, this quad and this motorcycle with the sheriff on it can. That doesn’t make sense to me. If you’re going to create an access that excludes a huge user group, you’re going to have a problem. And I’m pretty passionate about it, because I’ve grown up in Marin, if anyone actually came here and saw what it’s like, they would understand that it doesn’t work. So, no, doesn’t work.

Jeff Barber 39:07
Yeah, well, I mean, it’s kind of ironic, in the sense that, you know, mountain bikers see hikers as being unfair towards us and telling us we can’t ride, and yet we turn around and tell, you know, people who are ride bikes that are a little bit different than ours, that they can’t ride. So it’s kind of feels a little hypocritical.

Mark Weir 39:27
In a lot of cases, it totally does. And those people that say, No, a, haven’t ridden one a mo or B, they like to debate on a platform that they have no intelligence on because they’re not going to listen like a liberal or something like that. They’re like, I died. That’s your ideals. I can’t listen to it. There’s no way. And you’re like, Dude, you don’t get it, and you need to put your leg over it and see that you’re you can take your dad to the top of a mountain. Yeah? So maybe some kids are gonna ride it like but some kids don’t want to suffer. These days that the new generation of kids like my son’s age, you’re 10, they’re a bunch of sissies. I mean, they bunch, I tell them all the time, well, dude, you guys would get your ass kicked in my era, like, right now.

Jeff Barber 40:07
Because that’s what people are worried about. They’re like, Oh, this is not fair. I don’t know what it is, but yeah, people, people see that.

Mark Weir 40:14
It’s a bunch of score keeping idiots that just spend their time, like, involved in just this version of, like what they think it should be, and it doesn’t work that way anymore. Dude, there’s too many cooks in the and chefs in the kitchen that all want different things, and if you can’t come to some kind of common ground, you’re never going to get along. And when bikers hate other bikers, that doesn’t make any sense, two wheels are friends. I’m not saying we should be friends with motorcycles or anything like that. I don’t like, Yeah, well, I don’t like that. E bikes are getting built by motocross companies, you know, or motorcycle companies. I don’t, I don’t think we should be in alignment with that. That’s not what these are. These are schedule 1e bikes that don’t, it’s a, you know, 350 watt system, 250 watt system that just, you know, gives you some support for the people that need it to get out there. And I think the biggest problem with the cyclists that fight against it are the ones that feel that people don’t deserve to be at the top. They don’t deserve to be there. They didn’t do it on their own. And at one point, I was that guy. I’m not like that anymore. I see the difference. I felt the difference. I am what created my own difference. And having my dad and, you know, going to go ride with my wife and kid and do an E bike ride, we enjoy nature, I don’t mind stopping for other user groups ever on an uphill downhill. I’ve got a little bit of support. So I’m always like, okay to stop, stop at a stop sign, let a car go by on a regular bike. You’re not so acceptive of that kind of stuff. You’re like, you’re kind of in my way. Now I’m kind of pissed off. Now my tones kind of change for the next half an hour, I’m thinking about how I’m going to freaking jump you in the woods because you pissed me off. You know? I mean, there’s a lot of things that create animosity, but on an E bike, I’m, like, the friendliest guy I ever met.

Jeff Barber 42:06
Yeah, you bring up an interesting point too, about sort of the mental health side of it. I mean, a lot of people ride mountain bikes for an escape, right? A mental health like, it just makes them feel good. I mean, do you feel the same riding an E bike as you would a regular bike. I mean, it sounds like you’re almost saying you feel even better after an E bike ride than you would on a traditional bike.

Mark Weir 42:31
10-15, years ago, I probably wouldn’t feel as good because I needed a different thing back then. You know, I needed, I needed that, that feeling of like burying myself in a hole. But now, now I don’t, because I got, I got a family. I got to get my kid from school. I got to, you know, take care of stuff around the house. Now, the E bike I get done. I am so stoked. I can’t wait to ride tomorrow. And I do rides that I could never do, back to back I do, I mean, 8k a day, 8k a day. I just, I was, I did, you know, I forgot how much I was doing some testing with SRAM, and it’s like they’re like, your rides are insane, and you do them for, you know, it’s like so much ground you cover, which is also a concern, if everyone does that. Is that going to be people pollution, it probably will, but will that create more access? Maybe it will. Maybe it won’t, but we better figure it out. You know what? I mean? Like, yeah, we’ll need more trails. We need more trails. And then be like, Oh, you’re gonna destroy the trail. Dude, that’s bullshit. Dude. E bikes have more traction than any regular bike. You do less skidding like the rear brake potential, because the motors down low is so much more solid. You slow down quicker in a lot of situations, not in every situation, and super steep stuff, you know, you do have to wait, but, like, in a lot of situations, it has more available traction because of its weight. And the other thing is, that’s what we’re here for, to steward the land if we’re going to use it. That’s why we have like Sierra buttes, trail stewardship. That’s what they do. They steward the land. They constantly go out check it and then do work to it. That’s what we do as a community. That’s what builds community. You don’t just ride bikes. You also help keep the trails alive. You keep out there and build a community around big lunches and and doing trail work, and it’s fun, and it’s in it, and it creates a stronger army. So people are thinking that it’s all going to get thrashed because you added all these user groups, but then you add more stewards of the land, and that’s what you want. You want people to respect the land and then go and work on it if it gets beat up. But that’s what it’s there for, because if you don’t take care of that tread. It’ll turn into, you know, get trail right and and then other people start making it wider. That’s why you that’s why all these organizations exist, you know, like you don’t see the horse groups or the hiker groups going out there the PCT, give me a break. Those guys wouldn’t cut a tree down to save their life, but they go around it, you know. And then leave toilet paper, and at the top of the ridge, you’re like, bikers don’t do that. We’re very even e bikers, even though people probably think differently. We don’t leave trash. You got to take a dump. You bury your crap off the trail. I mean, there’s, like, a lot of stuff. You can haul your chainsaw easier. Yeah, I know we do a ton of trail work because of the E bike. And that’s, I have a 14 inch still, and I carry that thing and do trail work, because I like doing trail work, and now I have an easier way to do it. And there’s just so many benefits to what an E bike can bring to a lot of people in training, if you’re a racer, because you don’t have to ride on the road anymore. Road biking is awesome, as long as there’s no Priuses around. And for me, as soon as I got the E bike, I was done with road road biking, because I can do the same spin uphill and then get it downhill. So what’s the point of being on the road with a bunch of cars that have no respect for me? You know, I don’t like trusting some people, you know? I mean, all those people in the Prius do their best multitasking, like, I’m not going to leave it up to them to not hit me, you know, that’s not, I don’t want them to have an extra job, which is me, you know, yeah.

Jeff Barber 46:09
Well, mountain biking has taken you all over the world over the years. So what are some of the best trails or places that you’ve ridden that really stand out in your mind?

Mark Weir 46:19
I mean, if I had to do every transfer Vance with ash and that gang is been some of my best trips. I did three transfer vances had some of the best times of my life on those you know, when the first time it was a seven day turned into a six day because we were all real tired and and those are some of the best times of my life. But there’s also, you know that when we did all of the tribe sports geared the urge urge Kenya, there’s urge Nepal, and then urge Cabo Verde, those were adventures. They’re slightly uncomfortable because of such a Third World way of life that I wasn’t really accustomed to, like going through Nairobi and stuff like that, it was there was very eye opening to see how damn lucky we are and what we complain about is not really that important, and how tough and badass these people were. So those trips through like purge Cabo Verde was very eye opening. Four islands, boat rides, a culture that was so respectful. But probably my favorite one is my dolomite trip, 10 days in the Dolomites for this E bike, shoot for Cannondale. I covered so much ground on an E bike that I would have never got to see and it’s legal there, so we got to do I rode the whole place, like, I don’t we did so much terrain with my buddy ollie, and then the cannondale folks, marketing guys over there. And it was, it was like, Are you kidding me? On a regular bike, I would have seen a 10th of it. You know what I mean, it would have been, we got to do so much. It was the best film shoot I’ve ever done, you know. And, of course, we did the whole film, and then Cannondale was scared to show it to the US market, because, you know, because e bikes were so volatile and they didn’t want to take away my image. I totally get it, yeah. But it was a great video that they only showed in Europe about, you know, what, what you can do and adventure on. But then my favorite one also has still been the to a crest trail that, I mean, if you’ve never been out west off the highway 50 to like Ely, Nevada, it is hot springs and just complete vastness like you’ve never seen. It’s it’s crazy. So I mean, blessed that I’ve been able to do all these things. And you know that Fred glow actually had, you know, gave me the option and start that with him, like with that first FMF enduro series turned into all of those adventures in Europe. He pretty much, I owe a lot to he. He gave me the ability to do these traveling and have sponsorship, because it created so much, you know, created a lot for me. I appreciate him.

Jeff Barber 49:09
Yeah, that’s really cool. So you’ve worked closely with WTB for, by my account, at least a couple decades now. So what are some of the projects that you’re most proud to have been a part of?

Mark Weir 49:21
I mean, there’s, there’s a whole bunch of them. The werewolf was kind of weird, you know, I don’t really like my name anywhere, you know, like, it was a good tire, you know, in its time, Mark Slade is, like, one of my best friends, him and Seidler on the company. They’re great people. We’ve had our we’ve had our differences at times, but when you’re like brothers, that’s the way it works. And we always work it out because we love each other. But you know, working with Jason moschler When he came in, that was probably our best tire, like, really tire engineering stuff, and that’s what the tires that are out now, basically because of Jason moschler and all. Of testing and testing that we’ve been doing. We’re still doing it, you know, like some of our tires are wearing out a little too quick. We went all too soft. We’re constantly adjusting that stuff. And I think we’re in on the right path. I think it’s hard because people look at our name sometimes and there’s just animosity. But I always go, what are you actually supporting? You know, we’re a bunch of, you know, maybe you don’t like Americans, I don’t know, but we all live here. We all have a huge passion. We all ride bikes. And then you support a brand like maxis. Maybe they have some US office, but you’re actually supporting an Asian brand that probably doesn’t really ride that much, you know. I mean, maybe I’m saying too much. I don’t really care. But like we’re, we’re a passionate brand that actually has your best interest. And if you actually talk to us, you’ll understand that we really want to be a part of something. Yeah, we’re, we don’t have our own manufacturer. We’ve been suffering doing that kind of tire making, but we’re starting to make headway, starting to have better relationships and producing better rubber, better casings, casing technologies, wheel systems, with our rims. So, I mean, it’s been, it’s been a long haul, and there’s a at one point we had some shit product. I ain’t gonna lie, it was terrible. The Prowler line. What a joke, dude. I mean, I felt like we were fooling our customer. And we all felt that we scrapped all those molds. We basically said we’re not going to, we’re not going to sell any of this stuff. And now we have this gravel line that really kicks ass. We’re really proud of, and that’s the thing that we came together with when Jason came. We have to be proud of the product. Totally proud within all of us that it actually works and does what it is supposed to do. And and now we’re at that point. We’re like, we’re getting there, but it’s taken so many testers. We have so many testers that are friends and colleagues all over the world that are really helping us do this. Because we can’t do it on our own. You know, you can’t just sit there. We don’t have the ability to just sit there and, oh, that mold doesn’t work and scrap it. We have to consider how much it costs and time and everything to do. We don’t have a big crew, you know? We don’t have a lot of engineers, and we have two, you know, I mean, so when we’re doing this stuff, it’s, like, important to us to get it right, and we don’t always get it right, and we’ve made mistakes, but we’re trying to be on point now and give the consumer something they can be proud to buy and be part of. It’s not just a product, it’s you’re buying into what, what we do over here is a lifestyle, and what we really respect is, you know, the people who buy our product, they’re part of us.

Jeff Barber 52:33
Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s a really cool brand and, and, yeah, like you said, there’s been a lot of, a lot of innovations over the years. I mean, the work with TCS system early on with tubeless, and obviously that’s a big thing. Now, everybody’s running tubeless, and that technology has kind of progressed as well. Where do you see opportunities for mountain bike product improvement in the future?

Mark Weir 52:57
I mean, the biggest opportunity, I mean, if you look at like, people probably don’t want to hear this for me. But like, the E bike market in the US is basically 8% of the size of Europe. We’re growing 50 to 56% a year, and they don’t see that having a decline in any time soon, at least not in the five to 10 year forecast. You have the actual mountain bike, or cycling is fairly flat, maybe at a one 2% growth. And when you sit there and look at the E bikes are coming in, what’s going to wear out, brake pads, tires, seat post, there’s all these things I’ve worn out on my E bike. Seat posts do weird things. Cables. Do weird things, like adjustable seats, they snap cables. Now your suspension gets worked because everyone that’s buying e bikes are actually going to ride. Now, think of the percentage of people that buy really nice bikes and don’t ride. It turns into a hat hanger, a shelf. E bikes are actually going to get ridden. So consumable parts are going to be the they already are kind of, what is, you know, people make their bread and butter on it’s going to go tenfold. Look at Germany’s brake pad sales. You’re going through brake pads like they’re going out of style, you know, like it’s, it’s like everything is going to wear out faster. And because people are actually riding, you know, because the E bike gives you that support. So our products for regular mountain bikes are going to get better, you know, like, drive trains are going to get better. You know, it’s like, there’s already some innovations with SRAM and stuff that, you know, the drivetrain parts last way longer. You’re like, Whoa, where was this? You know, like, this is, this is actually really cool. You know, brakes have to become stronger, cool, better, like, so there’s, there’s a lot of innovation that has to come because of weight and because of actually, sheer use. And I think that’s what you know as an industry, we can actually find growth, and not just by bike sales, but by consumable parts all the way up to like, you know, a tule pack that has. A stabilizing battery mount inside it, you know? So you do those two battery rides, you know, a lot of different things like that, you know, how am I going to carry this? So now I got this battery. What other parts do I need? You know, like, what’s breaking, what’s wearing out. So I think that’s something that people, I don’t think is taken in full, especially in the US, maybe some of the manufacturers, but everyone’s there’s still some resistance, thinking that it’s not going to hit like the way it’s going to hit. I don’t believe so. I mean, you look at Europe, you look who’s riding bikes, and you know, I don’t want to sell to a bunch of people on pink bike. I don’t really care what you guys think, because you guys are all know it all. I want to sell to new people. I want to sell to non endemic people that actually have nothing to do with mountain biking. I want to bring them into the fold and create power. And that’s what we’ve been doing with you know, we have a program out of the local sports basement bike shop here that gives a deal to all of the MCMA motorcycle club that I have, and all these e bikes that have been going out of there are people that want to, like, don’t even ride their motorcycle anymore because they’re like, this is way easier. It is way healthier. For me, I just lost 20 pounds. I’m like, Dude, you’re healthier for our medical system will be better because of it. I mean, these are small things, and people probably think that that’s too much, you know, looking into the future, but if you consider that people could exercise more, should we not give them the chance, just as a community and as actual you know, how, how we spend our money? You’re like, God, medical reasons are a huge thing, dude. It’s because people are fat and lazy. A little bit of support can help, right?

Jeff Barber 56:42
Yeah, as mountain bikers, we tend to focus on sort of imagine ourselves, you know, we’re very fit, we’re very active. Imagine ourselves being less fit and less active because of E bikes, but, but there are so many more people who don’t ride bikes at all. And what about them? I mean, it’s, it’s clearly a benefit. So that’s a really interesting way of looking at it.

Mark Weir 57:02
I mean, it’s, you’re right. It’s not about us, it’s, it’s about, you know, them. And them are us, you know. So it’s like, it’s like, you can’t, you know, sit there and and people want it that I get confused when people want to sell to people that already know everything. I’m like, Dude, I can’t, I can’t sell you everything, because you just want to debate about how you think it’s I’d rather just go to a different crowd and and I want to go to the the bird watching group. We have all these old timers. I want to, we’re trying to figure out a demo ride with these old timer blue hairs. I show up with these e bikes on this flat terrain that usually takes them, you know, an hour to walk out to. I want to put these guys on bikes and be like, Here, let’s go. Let me show you what this actually is, and it’ll be eye opening. And I guarantee we’ll win. And that’s the kind of stuff that’ll create access, because you get our haters to freaking be your biggest advocate, you’re winning. You know, it’s like going to the moms. How do you get access? Go to the moms. How do you get a safer route to the school? Let’s talk to the mothers, you know, because they have the passion and the understanding, and people like hardcore cyclists, like I was, we are so one sided, and that is just not fair to everyone.

Jeff Barber 58:19
Well, Mark, clearly, you’re really passionate advocate for mountain biking and have done so many awesome things over the years. So thank you for joining us and for sharing the Stoke for mountain biking.

Mark Weir 58:33
Hey. Well, thank you. And hopefully I didn’t piss too many people off, but I gladly debate them later.

Jeff Barber 58:39
We’ll see. We’ll read the comments carefully.

Mark Weir 58:43
I will not, I do not read comments so you can let me know how it goes.

Jeff Barber 58:47
Yes, I say that with a wink.

Mark Weir 58:49
Okay, good. Well, I appreciate you thinking of me. I’m stoked to have this happen.

Jeff Barber 58:55
Absolutely. Well, if you’re enjoying the Singletracks podcast, we’d love to have you rate us and subscribe to us. That’s all we’ve got. This week, we’ll talk to you again next week. Peace.