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I was just over on the Garmin website this morning and noticed all the old Edge GPS units (205, 305, 605, and 705) are listed under the "Discontinued" category. Now the only color unit with maps is the Edge 800 which is touchscreen – a bad idea on the trail if you ask me (think dirt, water, and gloves).
Heck, if I wanted a touchscreen GPS for mountain biking I’d use my iPhone. I guess that’s what Garmin wants us to do…
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I don’t see the 500 in your list so maybe they’re just consolidating down to those two models.
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Yeah, the full line is 200, 500, 800. The 200 and 500 are essentially cycling computers (in both size and function).
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I guess I see their logic.
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"maddslacker" wrote
I guess I see their logic.
Really? Seems like a bonehead move to me, especially on the high end. Smartphones are touchscreen just like the Edge 800 but they also have a ton of extra features beyond GPS (camera, weather, communication, etc.) so why try to compete there? The reason I still use my Edge 305 is that the physical buttons are easier to control while I’m on the bike and it’s more rugged (though the latest smartphone bike mounts and cases are making that last bit less important).
On the low end, the units are getting smaller which is good – except that makes it more difficult to read the GPS while riding singletrack.
I guess overall my impression is the Garmin line is leaning more toward road biking and is getting away from MTB. Maybe they expect mountain bikers to use their "on the trail" line of hiking/trekking units?
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Yeah, that’s a good point too. Maybe they’re finding that mountain bikers do in fact use smartphones and don’t want to bother to compete there.
And as we all know, roadies will buy anything if it’s lighter than something else. 😃
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On the bright side, this will mean clearance prices on the discontinued models. 😃
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I was thinking the same thing. 😀 The 705s still seem expensive but the 605s are like $239 at amazon.
Last year I wanted to snatch up some 205s for cheap but didn’t have any luck. If Garmin could manage to sell the 205s for $99 I’m sure there would be a big market. Heck, I’d buy a few and loan ’em out to people to map trails!
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Santa is hitting a budget crisis this year so the 800 that I wanted is out, but the 605 is very doable at that price…
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That does seem like a really odd move on their part. But I’ve wondered for a while: what’s Garmin’s biggest market, devices for outdoors enthusiasts (including mountain bikers), or devices for cars?
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Seeing as how Garmin went to a lot of trouble to build a competitor to the Geocaching site, I have to think that even if it’s not their biggest market, it’s one they’re pretty interested in. Maybe they’ve just got something else in the works and don’t want competing lines.
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I like the idea of a touchscreen, how much are you messing with it while riding anyways?
A real GPS has WAY better gps capabilities than a cell phone. Barometric altimeters for instance.
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what’s Garmin’s biggest market, devices for outdoors enthusiasts (including mountain bikers), or devices for cars?
Cars were Garmin’s biggest market but that kinda crashed when everyone started getting smartphones (though it still may very well be bigger in terms of units sold). In all the earnings releases I’ve seen lately they’ve been hyping the big % growth they’re seeing in fitness devices but I have a feeling that will meet a similar fate.
I like the idea of a touchscreen, how much are you messing with it while riding anyways?I usually cycle between the summary data screen (miles ridden, avg. speed, current speed, etc.), elevation plot w/ total climb, and the map during a typical ride. I’m sure it would be easy to automate the scrolling though, sorta like some treadmills do.
A real GPS has WAY better gps capabilities than a cell phone. Barometric altimeters for instance.That is a good point – elevation isn’t as accurate on a cell phone. Then again, have you looked at the raw elevation data the Garmin units WITH barometric altimeters put out? Let’s just say their software does a lot of smoothing… Not a big deal to most folks either way but for creating quality maps, a full-on altimeter is definitely the way to go.
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"trek7k" wrote
Heck, if I wanted a touchscreen GPS for mountain biking I’d use my iPhone. I guess that’s what Garmin wants us to do…
I dunno if it is Garmin or the market that will drive this transition. Personally, I have been debating buying a new GPS, like something in the Garmin Montana series. But when I looked at what that unit would give me and compared it to what I can get on my phone, I couldn’t justify forking out another $500-600. It really comes down to what’s good enough for me. OK, I don’t get as accurate of an altimeter. I don’t care. I have a touch screen instead of buttons. Doesn’t matter to me since I don’t pay attention to it unless I come to some decision point on a trail or am taking a break. Better battery life? Well, OK, but I can buy a lot of spare batteries or a solar charger and still come out ahead with the smart phone. Ruggedness? Yeah, that would be nice, but, again, not a big sacrifice.
I look at smart phones and I think of Microsoft. They totally missed the boat when this market started heating up. People are quickly abandoning personal computers and using their smart phones for data consumption. If Microsoft would have been on top of it they could have owned the smart phone market. Garmin would be wise to commit some serious resources to becoming [i:2ivfaio2]the[/i:2ivfaio2] smart phone navigation app. The companies that depend on dedicated GPS devices for their revenue will likely join the dust-bin of technology companies that failed to anticipate the evolution of their market place. Their dedicated GPS devices can easily be replaced by a smart phone and most people will consider that to be good enough. Yeah, the hard cores will still demand the extra performance that a dedicated device can deliver, but is there enough of a market there to sustain these companies? I doubt it.
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+1
The smart phone apps aren’t as good as a real GPS…but…I got a smart phone for for less than $5.
I want a cycling specific GPS, but I just can’t convince myself it’s worth the money – and I’ve tried to many times! I’ve been close to hitting the "submit payment" button several times, but never do.
Besides, how do they justifiy the cost of a cycling specific GPS when a decent one for a car costs less than $100?
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I love using my phone for all my GPS needs. The sacrifice I make in areas like altitude accuracy are more than offset by the ability to retrieve, manipulate and send data in real time. If I’m going for a bike ride, I can get trail maps, track my route and upload my ride data while I’m out. If I decide to do a cache in the middle of my ride, I can look for nearby caches, find it and upload my smiley while I’m standing in the woods. During all of this, I’m getting important calls, texts and emails.
It always comes down to what features you really need. I don’t need any feature on a dedicated GPS enough to buy one.
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I don’t have an Edge unit, but I use the Forerunner 305, and I LOVE it. So easy to use, durable, reliable… not the best for navigation, but it’ll log all sorts of data.
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"dgaddis" wrote
Besides, how do they justifiy the cost of a cycling specific GPS when a decent one for a car costs less than $100?
Because the car one doesn’t have a heart rate monitor or power meter! 😆
Being serious though, the mobile units have to do more than the car units, in a package 1/4th the size, and on a battery. When technology shrinks like that, the cost to manufacture it goes up.
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Good points madd. One thing I think a lot of people find frustrating is the car GPS units come with built-in maps (they’d be worthless without ’em) but the outdoor units don’t (or didn’t). You’d have to fork over another $100 for maps and even then you had to load just portions of the map because there wasn’t enough storage on the device.
Bonked hit the nail on the head with his reply: people are looking at spending $450 for an Edge 800 or $2.99 for an iPhone app that’s good enough. It’s an easy choice for most.
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Heh, you’re talking to the guy using a shareware app on an employer-provided Blackberry…
The car market is feeling the same crunch, with mobile Google Maps stepping up their free features all the time.
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I will be getting my first smartphone early next week (hopefully). When I ordered it yesterday, I was playing with the iphone 4s (phone i’ll be getting) at the verizon store, and noticed that that phone had a maps icon right on the main screen that brings up google maps with a form to enter directions. Did past phones come with this feature? Because it seems like it would almost completely destroy the Garmin car market for iphone owners.
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Greg, the Google Maps app on the iPhone doesn’t do turn-by-turn directions (like, it won’t tell you when to turn at the moment you approach an intersection) but it does work like the regular online version of google maps with written directions and a map.
Android phones DO offer turn-by-turn directions in the Google Maps app as an incentive for folks to pick Android over iPhone. Still, Tom Tom and Garmin offer navigation apps for iPhone but they’re expensive by mobile app standards.
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The basic Google Maps does use the GPS and shows your location moving along the defined route, but like trek7k said, it doesn’t go HEY! TURN HERE!
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"trek7k" wrote
Greg, the Google Maps app on the iPhone doesn’t do turn-by-turn directions (like, it won’t tell you when to turn at the moment you approach an intersection) but it does work like the regular online version of google maps with written directions and a map.
Android phones DO offer turn-by-turn directions in the Google Maps app as an incentive for folks to pick Android over iPhone. Still, Tom Tom and Garmin offer navigation apps for iPhone but they’re expensive by mobile app standards.
Ah ok, thanks for the info! I’ve never used a car GPS before anyways, so hopefully I won’t miss that feature
Interesting how Google is trying to incentivize Android purchases any way they can.
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"maddslacker" wrote
The basic Google Maps does use the GPS and shows your location moving along the defined route, but like trek7k said, it doesn’t go HEY! TURN HERE!
So it does update your position in real time? That’s cool, and makes sense. I don’t think I’d want somebody yelling at my anyways.
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It’ll be interesting to see what happens if this becomes law.
It says GPS is okay…but, what about GPS apps on phones?
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"dgaddis" wrote
It’ll be interesting to see what happens if this becomes law.
It says GPS is okay…but, what about GPS apps on phones?
Ha! This could be just what Garmin needs to stay relevant. 😀
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mtbgreg1, Android phones have always had spoken turn-by-turn instructions in the Navigate function. We have used it multiple times. For example, when passing thru an unfamiliar town, you can just say to the phone "nearby restaurants" and up comes a list with the distance from your current location. You select one, ask for directions, and off you go. Or, when apt hunting with my daughter we could just say "navigate to {address}" and instantly get turn-by-turn spoken instructions. Plugging the phone into the car audio system (with Pandora playing in the background) we could cruise down the streets and have the spoken directions coming from the stereo. Very convenient. I’m sure something similar can be setup on the iPhone, although it may not be Google based apps that deliver.
For me, the one place that is lacking in phone based navigation apps is quality, integrated, topo maps. If you have cell phone signal then things work fine with the apps that pull map layers from Google Terrain. But once you go offline that’s when things go downhill. Right now you have to cobble up your own maps and load them on the phone, which is a big pain. However, when you look at what Garmin charges for their proprietary maps that can be an incentive to screw around with map building sw. To me, that is the one opportunity that nobody has taken on. A few apps have been produced by individuals and small groups (Backcountry Navigator, Orux, Locus, Gaia, etc.) and Trimble took a stab at it with Trimble Outdoors, but none of them have the quality, ease of use, and maps to be ideal. Still lots of room for improvement there. (Jeff, feel like taking it on??)
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"bonkedagain" wrote
Jeff, feel like taking it on??
Ha! No thanks. Like you said, the data is out there & freely available for folks to cobble together but no one has done a good job so far. Maybe an integration with OpenStreetMaps? They hit my area pretty hard and have mapped everything, including cut-through paths that are just a few yards long. Most of the iPhone apps seem to be using OSM for their basemaps (though AFAIK there isn’t a topo layer right now).
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Remember those things called maps and compasses? 😆
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Those still have their places too! Nothing like being able to spread out a map and plot your route. It’s frustrating to scroll a big map on a small screen – after more than a few screen widths I lose all sense of relative locations. For big rides I like to bring a GPS and a map.
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+1 on having a tangible map! For me, nothing can beat it. I love the National Geographic Trails Illustrated maps.
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Honestly I just follow the signs on the trails. I haven’t needed a map in a long time. It was worse back East though. When cross country skiing in heavy forest cover it was super easy to get lost.
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I purchased an Edge 200 a month or so ago and LOVE IT! I was previously carting around my Android device in my camel and using an app called iMapMyRide to track all of my rides. I would forget to turn it off when I finished riding, I was constantly having to remove my gloves to perform any functions, having to stop and pull it out of my pack, etc… Now I leave the phone in the truck unless I’m by myself.
I found that the Garmin tracks a more accurate trail ride than the Android mobile devices I’ve had using Google Maps. Also, when far out of coverage I’d have a difficult time even getting the GPS feature to function correctly. Don’t get me wrong, both serve their purpose, but I like the traditional style of a bike computer mounted on the handlebar stem with the added benefit of being able to upload by rides and maps to a data base. The Garmin has some pretty cool little features without getting too fancy. Plus, I was happy I didn’t have to calibrate another bike computer!
Just my 2 cents… 😃
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"bonkedagain" wrote
For me, the one place that is lacking in phone based navigation apps is quality, integrated, topo maps. If you have cell phone signal then things work fine with the apps that pull map layers from Google Terrain. But once you go offline that’s when things go downhill. Right now you have to cobble up your own maps and load them on the phone, which is a big pain.
After taking the time to tinker and learn I’ve decided the world isn’t so bad after all. It is actually pretty easy to get Orux to download Google Terrain (topo) maps. (Now that the developer has come up with a fix for the web address he was using for the Google Terrain maps server, that is.) Contrary to what I previously thought, I can easily download topo maps (Google Terrain) to my phone for a selected area. The map quality is excellent; way better than the ancient ArcGIS stuff that Backcountry Navigator provides.
What I have been doing is downloading topo maps for an area for the larger view, i.e., layers (zoom level) 12-15 and then satellite photos for the close-in layers 16-19. With Orux, that means when I am looking at an area it starts out with a topo view and as I zoom in it switches to satellite view. Very handy. I’m now content with using my phone for mapping and navigation.
The only remaining issue is battery life, but I find that if I put the phone in airplane mode I can go most of the day, as long as I don’t spend too much time lighting up the screen.
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OK I have read all below so let me ask a question to the Edge users. Are you satisfied with the Edge units. I am going to buy the Edge 800 within the month. I live, work and ride in a remote area of Western North Carolina…20 miles from Tsali if that helps. I have my own small business of maintaining peoples vacation homes some of which are deep in the Nantahala forest with lots of old logging road and horse trails…rarely used around and will often times just go for a blind ride when i feel like a break from the days work. No cell phone reception at all. Only got lost once or twice…fun.
I am looking at the Garmin Maps. My goal is to know where I am when I take a blind ride and of course to track it for later use. Any advice regarding 24K vs. 100K. I don’t mind spending the addtional money on the 24K. I was thinking of the micro SD card but the 24K coverage area includes NC and SC but NOT GA and I also plan on riding North GA this year quite a bit…then I will have to buy a 2nd micro SD card and I don’t want to necessarily screw around with two cards as I know I will cross state lines in a ride. The 100K I can buy the whole south east or U.S. for that matter. I know they are not as detailed but for just knowing where I am on a trail…are the 100k good enough.
Now I see I can buy the 24K Southeast CD which includes GA. Can I make a file of just NC, SC and GA on the Edge 800 or would that take up to much space or can I store those three states on a blank SD card. I can’t mess around with downloading from Garmin or any other because I have Hughsnet and you can’t download the maps from Garmin using a Satellite connection.
I know what the Garmin website says but I hear from other riders that customer support is horrible at times and I don’t know if they are trumping up there product. I would like to have info from people who have used the Edge models or heard directly from other riders what is good or not.
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I recommend using 24K maps for the type of riding you’re describing. The 100K maps may not have all the detail you need to navigate old/former logging roads.
Go for the CD of the Southeast to save some $$. Then, just load the sections of each state you need (western NC, northern GA) and you should have plenty of room on your SD card. No need for all the flat sections of those states anyway. 😀
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"dgaddis" wrote
Besides, how do they justifiy the cost of a cycling specific GPS when a decent one for a car costs less than $100?
Smaller, battery powered and weatherproof = more $$$
But agree, it shouldn’t be *that* much more. Or put differently the GPS has less going on than a similar sized phone, but those are also subsidized by the carriers.
So that leads me to think, when do we start seeing cheap GPS hardware subsidized by a paid subscription to something? (and would we go for it, as consumers?)
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Any good reviews, or not so good reviews about the Garmin 800? I’m thinking of purchasing one and would like to know how well you guys (who have purchased it) think it does on trails and maps…
Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
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DC RainMaker has good reviews, pros and cons of various models…
this is the review of the Garmin Edge 800.
[url:25363lsr]http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/08/garmin-edge-800-in-depth-first-look.html[/url:25363lsr]BTW, I want to to buy a GPS… Edge series or MotoActiv… I open a new topic…
Or wich could be the best GPS..?
[url:25363lsr]http://forums.singletracks.com/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=7777[/url:25363lsr]
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