Can you out-ride a bad diet? The truth about junk food and MTB performance

Alex Larson is a registered dietitian who works with endurance athletes, including cyclists, helping them fuel smart both on and off the bike. In this podcast episode we’ll be tackling some serious nutrition questions—like how much protein do you actually need?—and some not-so-serious ones—like if hot dogs make for a good pre- or post-ride meal.

• When should athletes choose hydration mix over plain water?
• How do you know if you need more electrolytes?
• What role does sugar play in fueling rides? Do non-pro cyclists benefit from sugar mid-ride too?
• Among mountain bikers there does seem to be a sense that because we’re so active, we don’t need to be as concerned about avoiding junk food as less active individuals. Is that fair?
• What are some effective and inexpensive alternatives to traditional energy/fueling products?
• Is it “OK” to indulge in a giant burrito and a couple beers after a ride? Any nutritional guidance around post-ride meals?
• Do you have a rule of thumb for how much protein athletes—especially cyclists—should actually need to consume each day?
• How accurate are calorie estimates from smart watches and fitness apps?
• Is weight loss really just “calories in vs. calories out,” or is there more to it?
• What role does AI currently play in nutrition planning and advice? Should athletes be cautious or curious?

Learn more and connect with Alex at alexlarsonnutrition.com, and check out her podcast, Endurance Eats. An automated transcript is provided below.

Transcript

Jeff Barber (00:00:53):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Singletracks podcast. I’m your host, Jeff Barber, and today we’re diving into a topic that’s a little outside our usual gear and trail talk, but just as essential to riding your best, and that is nutrition. Joining me is Alex Larson, a registered dietician who works with endurance athletes, including cyclists, helping them fuel smart both on and off the bike. We’ll be tackling some serious questions. How much protein do you actually need? And some not so serious ones like if hot dogs make for a good pre or post ride meal. So Alex, thanks for joining me. Welcome to the podcast.

Alex Larson (00:01:42):
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Jeff Barber (00:01:44):
So we started this off, I asked our readers on social media what nutrition questions they had, and we got a lot of serious questions, which we’ll go into, but we got just as many comments that were kind of jokey, suggesting that some mountain bikers maybe aren’t that focused on nutrition. So I’m curious, among your clients, do you see different approaches to nutrition based on the sport that people are into?

Alex Larson (00:02:13):
A little bit, I think. I’ve probably dabbled in almost all of the sports, it feels like, except for, I will say I haven’t really done much mountain biking. I’m kind of a chicken when it comes to some of the downhill and twists and turns of things. Right now I’m really drinking the Kool-Aid with the gravel racing. And so I mean, my boys have mountain bikes and I’m going to try and take them to some pump tracks here locally, and I’m like, you know what? Maybe I would be surprised if in the next few years I end up getting a mountain bike. It won’t be anything super intense. But yeah, I think that the variations that I see among the sports, I would say definitely road cycling or marathon runners, those tend to be pretty serious, intense athletes. They’ve got some pretty high level goals.

(00:03:08):
The gravel racing is definitely getting more popular, especially athletes that are maybe doing Unbound, but we just had Leadville 100 and that’s considered a mountain bike course. And so a lot of our mountain bikers are typically doing some of those bigger races where nutrition plays a very huge role in their success and actually getting to the finish line. So I think that’s probably the biggest variation is just the seriousness of the athlete. But sometimes athletes who are doing this just for fun, which I think most all of us are, but sometimes you just kind of set your standards a little bit higher of wanting to be more competitive or trying to get on a podium. Even if you are doing this at just a recreational level, I think people are still very much worthy of fueling themselves very well because it makes your riding so much more enjoyable when you feel good and when we’re not fueling, it can be really easy to feel pretty poorly.

(00:04:07):
I think some people just don’t truly understand the connection or maybe they know that there’s a connection, but they just don’t want to put in the work quite yet. And so they might joke around about it, which is fine. I think food should be fun, and I love to joke around. If anyone follows my Instagram, then I like to make fun of the nutrition stuff that endurance athletes do and make it lighthearted and simple and make it not feel too complicated because it can get really intense on the internet with the multitude of opinions and perspectives, and it can be kind of drinking from a fire hose, trying to figure out what’s the right information to sift through. And so that’s where I like to come in and just kind of make this feel more practical and realistic for people.

Jeff Barber (00:04:51):
Yeah, that’s a great approach. Yeah, so I’m really glad you’re here because mountain bikers, yeah, it sounds like that’s a good fit for how people are viewing it. So let’s start with a question that a lot of riders have, especially right now during the summertime when it’s hot outside: what should we be drinking? Should we drink plain water on rides or when should you reach for a hydration mix instead?

Alex Larson (00:05:18):
Yeah, I think for anything that’s over an hour, it’d be a great idea to start incorporating some sort of sports drink or electrolyte mix in your bottles. With mountain biking, because it can be logistically really difficult depending on the type of trail you’re on to reach and grab fuel, consume it with taking your hands off the handlebars, not always ideal. So I am a really big fan of cyclists, especially whether you’re a triathlete or road cyclist or mountain biker, to have in your fluids some carbs and some electrolytes already mixed in there because then it’s a nice way for you to easily, especially if you have a pack on where you just have the tube that you can consume water through, you’re getting yourself a nice little dose of carbs depending on how much you concentrate it. With carbs, you can get some sodium in there and you can keep up on that a lot easier. And so then you don’t have to rely on trying to take a gel every 20 minutes. That’s my favorite route to go in terms of killing two, three birds with one stone situation.

(00:06:56):
But in terms of hydration needs, everyone’s sweat rate is a little bit different. So I do tend to have athletes do some sweat testing where you basically, if you have a scale at home, you would weigh yourself before a ride, drink a premeasured amount of fluid. So often I’ll just grab a water bottle, I’ll fill it with whatever I need, I will weigh it on a little kitchen scale, write down that number. When I come back, I’ll weigh it again, kind of subtract, figure out how many ounces I drank, and then I’ll weigh myself again afterwards. And then I’ve got a little calculator on my blog on my website where you can just enter in that data and it’ll give you your sweat rate per hour. And it’s just really good information to know, especially in this heat, to figure out, okay, if I’m going out for a couple hours, maybe I’m going to try and rehydrate during my ride about 75% of my sweat rate so that I’m not finishing the ride severely dehydrated. Or if you’re going out for longer, making sure that you’re drinking enough to keep performance optimal. They say usually if you’re losing over 2% of your body weight in fluids, you’re going to see performance decline and cognitive function decline. So it’s really important to stay up on that hydration. You just feel better. Gut health in terms of not having gut issues, dehydration is one of the big ones that causes a lot of GI issues with athletes, and you’re just going to get better watts out of your bike if you’re feeling really good.

Jeff Barber (00:08:12):
Yeah, yeah, that’s great. Well, yeah, and I’m somebody, it’s weird, but I don’t like the taste of water and so yeah, that’s good to know.

Alex Larson (00:08:21):
Oh, I love the taste of water. I mean, I would just love to drink plain water all day long, but I tend to be a really salty sweater, so I need to make sure that if it’s really hot out, if I’m going out in the afternoon at the hottest part of the day, I’m adding, I have actually here on my desk, I like these Precision Hydration packets, they’re like 1500 milligrams. This is the packet one, not the effervescent tablets. So I’ll usually split one of those among my bottles just to boost a little bit more sodium with some of the other carb mix that I have in there.

Jeff Barber (00:08:53):
Okay. Yeah, I was going to ask about that. You mentioned it’s good to have the electrolytes, but also some carbs in your hydration mix. Yeah, I never understood. There’s a lot of those, the effervescent ones you’re talking about, a lot of those have zero calories. So are you mixing that with something else?

Alex Larson (00:09:12):
Yep. So there’s so many different products, and I’m pretty brand agnostic at this point. Whatever floats people’s boat in terms of taste preference, it’s got to taste good for people. That’s always my top priority. I’m like, hey, what’s palatable to you so that you actually consume it? If you don’t like it, even though it’s the latest and greatest that the pros use, if you don’t like the taste of it, then don’t try and force it down. That’s just not fun. For example, Neversecond has some hydration mixes. They’ve got their C30, they’ve got a C90, so 90 grams of carb or 30 grams of carb, and those have a pretty decent amount of salt in there, but you certainly could add some additional electrolytes to them.

(00:09:59):
Super High-Carb Skratch would be one of the higher carb mixes where if you’re doing a full serving of that, it’s 100 grams of carb and only about 300, 400 milligrams of sodium. So again, if you’re a salty sweater, it’s like, yeah, you’re getting the carbs, but you got to also make sure that we’re getting in more sodium. Sometimes I’ll add a scoop of the regular Skratch, it tastes a little bit better to me, and it adds another 300 milligrams of sodium because the regular hydration mix of Scratch has got a higher dose of electrolytes. Tailwind is pretty similar to Scratch hydration mix, and they just released a high carb product as well. So there’s lots of different products out there to try. You can get your carbs and then just keep an eye on the sodium. And if you’re someone that’s more of a salty sweater where you have a lot of salt caked on your clothes, on your kit after it dries, that might be an indicator. If you have a history of a lot of cramping, especially in those kind of longer, hotter races, it’s like, okay, yeah, let’s bump up the electrolytes there. And usually that will help improve things.

(00:10:57):
If you’re someone that gets headaches after your workouts, that’s one where I’m like, you need to give yourself a really good rehydration of electrolytes and fluids after that workout, and that will maybe alleviate that headache for sure. My husband is not an athlete, but he does HVAC work in the summer, works on ACs, so he’ll be outside in the heat all day long and he’ll come home and he has this wicked headache, and I’m like, hun, how much water did you drink? He’s like, I drank so much water. I’m like, you need to take some of these. I give him either Liquid IV or, I’ve got a bunch of different, can you please just add this to your water? And then the next week he’s like, I’m so mad at you. I’m like, why? He’s like, because you were right again. I’m always right. And I was like, yeah, it makes a really big difference. His headaches went away and I’ve had athletes, same thing. They’re like, oh, I always get a headache after a long ride. And I’m like, let’s just add in a little sodium load before your ride, and a little after, and they’re like, yeah, my headaches, no more. And so it’s kind of interesting how just some simple quick fixes can really give you a better experience.

Jeff Barber (00:12:19):
Yeah, yeah. I don’t get headaches after rides usually, but I definitely get cramps, leg cramps pretty easily. So yeah, I guess I’m a salty sweater. So I mean, you’re saying that some people need more electrolytes, and I’ve noticed there has been a push lately to add more electrolytes to sports drinks and tablets, and now there are these things like you’re talking about specifically where it’s just electrolyte. You can add that to a sports drink that already has some. So it sounds like that’s helpful, but how do you know if it’s too much?

Alex Larson (00:12:55):
Yeah, I mean, if you are starting to notice some water retention and swelling, that would definitely be a big sign there. But you can actually have your sweat tested. There’s a few different routes that you can go. Precision Hydration has some sweat testing locations all over, I mean the world essentially. And it’s a very simple test where they put a little electrode on your arm and it sends a little pulses into right in that little spot to signal that skin to sweat as if you’re doing a really hard effort. And then they’ll collect that sweat and they’ll tell you how much sodium you’re losing per liter. I’ve done that before. It came back 1700 milligrams per liter, which I was shocked, but then as…

Jeff Barber (00:13:42):
Is that high?

Alex Larson (00:13:43):
That’s pretty high. Usually the average is around 1000. And so my jaw was on the floor, but then I thought about it and I was like, oh, actually that kind of tracks. When I used to do triathlons, I had cramping issues on the run every single time. So that might be why. And then Levelen has a patch kit where you would go work out with this patch on and then you mail it in and they analyze the results from that patch kit and it will give you a whole big analysis. And that one’s pretty cool. We’ve had our athletes do that. Or there’s H Drop, it’s like a wearable device. That would be another route you could go. I think that one’s a little more expensive. I think it’s like $200, $300, but it will also measure how much fluids you’re losing too.

(00:14:31):
So that’s kind of interesting. But I’ve heard really good things about that product as well. So there’s different things that you can use to learn more about your sweat rate, but then it’s not just about learning what your sweat rate is. It’s then also practicing, okay, how much fluids do I have to drink in an hour to keep myself hydrated and staying on top of that, finishing your bottles on time. I struggle with it myself where I’m like, alright, every 15 minutes when my alarm goes off, I have to take at least three, four big gulps of fluid so that I can stay on track to finish my bottle in time to keep myself hydrated.

Jeff Barber (00:15:07):
Wow.

Alex Larson (00:15:08):
So it’s not just about dedication learning, but also then the practice. Because then when you get to race day, when there’s all sorts of things that you’re thinking about and you’ve got a million things going on in your head, trying to strategize, positioning and pace and all of that, it’s second nature for you to grab that bottle and stay hydrated.

Jeff Barber (00:15:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Well, so yeah, we also kind of touched on carbs, and one of the questions that somebody asked on our Instagram was they mentioned that pro road racers are known to drink a Coke mid ride. So what role does sugar actually play as fuel during a ride? And do regular riders like me need that? Could I drink a Coke in the middle of the ride? Would that be good for me?

Alex Larson (00:15:59):
Yes. Sugar is very important. Even if you are a recreational rider, you’re going to need carbs. I have had so many conversations, especially with my cyclists lately about, because they’ll go on a two hour easy effort ride or a three hour easy ride. I even had one athlete, she lives over in Europe, and she went for a five hour easy effort ride. I’m like, you still rode for five hours, even though this was a leisurely pace for you. And she only had, maybe she averaged 40 grams of carb per hour. And so I measure it in carbs. So a lot of people might count by calories per hour, but when I say carbs, I’m meaning sugar because sugar is carbs. And for anything over two, two and a half hours, you’re looking at 60 to 90 grams of carb per hour that athletes are needing. And even if it’s leisurely pace, because when you’re cycling, you are using major muscles continuously pedaling, and that requires energy. And for many athletes, what I end up seeing, even if it was an easy effort ride, they underfuel the ride itself and then later on in the day, they feel exhausted, they’re tired, they feel like they need to take a nap, they feel like they’ve got this ravenous hunger that just can’t go away, no matter how much they eat. They just get the hungries all evening long.

(00:17:22):
And if people are like, oh my gosh, this is me. This is your sign to start fueling more on the bike. If that’s drinking a Coke, have it be a Coke. The perks of a Coke is that it’s got some caffeine in there too. So it’s going to give you not just a really good shot of sugar, but it’s also going to give you that caffeine cognitive boost. I mean, that’s the benefit of using something like that, but you also could use a caffeinated gel or other forms of things. But yeah, you certainly could use a Coke. The only thing is that carbonation can be a little, can cause some belching and…

Jeff Barber (00:18:07):
A little gas, could be uncomfortable.

Alex Larson (00:18:08):
Could be a little uncomfortable in the stomach. If you’ve ever done an Ironman, on the runs, they will serve flat Coke during the run of an Ironman because there’s something about a flat Coke on the run. When people’s stomach goes just a little bit south from the long day, I’m like, okay, that’s the time to reach for that flat Coke. There’s something about it, kind of brings you back to life. It settles people’s stomach. I think just that little bit of acidity with the caffeine in there and they’re able to finish strong. So I’m definitely team sugar in any form that people prefer to use as long as it’s going to sit well on their stomach and it’s going to help them get to the finish line stronger.

Jeff Barber (00:18:51):
Yeah. Yeah. I just looked it up while we were talking. A Coke has 39 grams of carbs, a 12 ounce can, but that’s still, were you saying 100 per hour? So that’s still not even half.

Alex Larson (00:19:02):
Well, 60 to 90 is the recommendation. It’s the guidelines. It’s not the rule because people have probably heard over the past six to 12 months that we’re starting to see athletes fuel with well above the 90 grams of carb per hour. So I’ve seen, I mean, I have a number of cyclists that have gone to 100, 120. I’ve even had some athletes go even beyond that. But you really have to be able to put out the power to use that much energy. I mean, if you’re going for a leisurely ride, you don’t need to be putting in that much carbs per hour. But if you’re doing a really long hard race and you’re throwing out watts, it’s nobody’s business, then you need to make sure you’re putting in the fuel to be able to keep that engine going.

Jeff Barber (00:19:54):
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So yeah, not everybody needs that. I mean, I feel like, yeah, a lot of this is marketing, and it’s very recent too that I’ve been seeing this, even the sports drinks are advertising like a higher carb version or a higher electrolyte version. But it sounds like more is not necessarily better for everyone. I mean, unless you are…

Alex Larson (00:20:15):
Yeah, the thing about nutrition is it’s not black and white. It’s very much gray. It’s so individualized, which is kind of part of my role is helping people figure out what’s going to work best for them. Gut tolerance is another thing too. If you’re a newbie athlete, you’re not going to be able to go from taking 20 grams of carb per hour to 90. You have to really gradually work your way up to that. And doing more liquid carbs, like those hydration mixes, those are typically better tolerated in the gut. So people can jump up a little bit faster going that route. But if you’re just doing gels and trying to consume that much in gels, that’s a lot of gels. That can be a little bit harder on the stomach, and you want to make sure you kind of drink some water with those to dilute it as well, because otherwise it’s just kind of a sugar bomb that’s going to definitely upset things.

Jeff Barber (00:21:05):
Yeah, yeah. Alright. So one reader asked, how many hot dogs should I eat before and after the ride? And I assume that’s at least partially in jest, but it does bring up a good point. So among mountain bikers, there does seem to be this sense that because we’re so active, we don’t really need to be concerned about avoiding junk food. So I’m curious, is that fair?

Alex Larson (00:21:32):
I wouldn’t necessarily eat a hot dog before a ride. So our body digests carbohydrates first. That’s our body’s favorite form of energy. They get digested very quickly. They’re a very efficient source of energy. Then they will digest the protein and then they’ll digest fat. And hot dogs, aside from the bun, I mean the bun’s going to be your carb, but the hot dog itself is going to be basically protein and fat. And so that is going to take a lot longer to digest. So I mean, if you want to have a hot dog before a ride, I would allow at least an hour, hour and a half for that hot dog to digest. It’s not going to help you performance-wise. Okay. So protein and fat, it’s not going to offer any performance benefits. The bun on the hot dog is really going to be your energy source there.

(00:22:53):
And then post, if you want to have a hot dog, but I also would have some additional higher quality protein, like maybe a protein drink or some chocolate milk or something that’s going to give you some of that higher quality protein because post ride, your muscles are going to be tired, they’re going to want to get fed, they’re going to want to reload your glycogen stores in your muscles, in your liver, and it needs carbs for that, but then it’s going to need to repair that muscle and it needs protein. So those are the two things.

(00:22:53):
And then to answer the question about junk food, I like to take a balanced approach. If I get an athlete that comes in and they are beaming to me about their very clean diet, they only eat whole foods and very minimal processed foods in their life, I can almost guarantee that they aren’t eating enough for their really active lifestyle. It’s really hard to eat a very clean whole foods diet as an athlete and get enough nutrition to support the volume of training that endurance athletes are doing. And so there has to be a fine balance. And so a good example is we had a runner that started with us earlier this year, and he’s like, I would love to lose 10 pounds. He goes, I do all of this running and my body just doesn’t look like I’m a runner.

(00:23:49):
I would love to get a little leaner. And so we optimized his nutrition and at the end of the four months with us, he was down 12 pounds. He’s lost, he’s down now 15, and he’s like, I’ve never eaten more Pop-Tarts in my life. He always fuels his runs now with a Pop-Tart beforehand, mostly carbs, a little bit of protein, a little bit of fat in a Pop-Tart, and it tastes really good. It’s really easy to travel with when you’re heading out the door to meet someone for a run and he’s down in weight, but also including some of his favorite processed foods in there. And then the rest of the day with your meals and snacks, we can take advantage of including some really nutrient rich whole foods and balanced meals that way. So I like to take a balanced approach of let’s use some processed foods because they tend to be a little bit more refined sugars, which get digested really fast, which fuel your workouts really well, and then let’s maximize other nutrient dense foods later on.

Jeff Barber (00:24:50):
Okay. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. So zero hot dogs before the ride is what I’m hearing.

Alex Larson (00:24:56):
Or please allow enough time to digest it. I just can’t imagine having a hot dog trying to digest in my stomach while I’m trying to ride.

Jeff Barber (00:25:04):
Yeah. Yeah, that’s tough.

Alex Larson (00:25:05):
But I’ll say I feel like mountain bikers are kind of like the ultra runners where they eat burritos and pizza and hot dogs out on, because ultra runners are usually running at a 50, 60% VO2 max versus some more sprint type athletes are doing more of 70, 80, 90% VO2 max. It’s harder effort. And when it’s harder effort, our digestive system is not moving along very well because all of that blood flow is getting diverted away from the gut and going to muscles and major organs to make sure that they’re functioning really well during this hard intensity effort. If you’re doing an easy leisurely ride, your GI tract is going to be moving along just fine because the body’s not stressed out at that point.

Jeff Barber (00:25:59):
Right, right. Yeah, and this idea of balance too, it makes a lot of sense. It reminds me, this was many years ago, we did a podcast interview with Mark Weir who mountain bikers, a lot of mountain bikers will know him. He was a professional racer, still real big in the industry, but he had heart issues. He had some sort of heart attack or something. Listeners can go back and listen to that. But he attributed part of that to years of his life where he was a super fit athlete and mountain biking every day and training and all these things, but having a poor diet. I think he said he ate just cheeseburgers and bacon cheeseburgers, and that was it. And he kind of attributed that to some issues that he had later. So yeah, it sounds like having that balance is good. You can have some of that stuff, but also, yeah, you don’t want to overdo it.

Alex Larson (00:26:58):
And I think too, there was a triathlete, a pro triathlete that had a heart attack during a race. He finished the race, but he didn’t really know what was happening. So he went to the hospital and they were like, yeah, you had a heart attack. And I’m pretty sure this guy ate very healthy. But it goes to show I find that the stress of being an endurance athlete is also really hard on the cardiovascular system. And for athletes who eat really well and train and obviously exercise a lot, and their cholesterol levels are really high, it could be genetics, there could be a family history of just high cholesterol. That certainly is a factor. But also I find when athletes are really underfueled and they’re not optimizing nutrition, that adds additional stress onto the body on top of their training that they do, because training is stress. That’s us stressing out the body to say, hey, let’s physically adapt to getting stronger, more fit and more efficient at this workout. But if we’re not supplying the nutrition that it needs, our body is extending that stress even longer because it’s taking longer to recover. And so when we optimize that nutrition, athletes are like, my doctor is ecstatic that my cholesterol is coming down. I’m like, I’m pretty sure you’re less stressed because your body actually has the nutrition that it needs.

Jeff Barber (00:28:22):
Right. Interesting. Well, so you mentioned the athlete that eats a lot of Pop-Tarts, that uses Pop-Tarts before…

Alex Larson (00:28:31):
My team, and we love our Pop-Tarts. It’s such an easy, convenient fuel to use before a workout.

Jeff Barber (00:28:39):
Yeah. Well, so I’m curious, what are some other cheap alternatives to these fancy sports nutrition products? I think one of our commenters mentioned that they eat gummy bears and lemonade drink mix and stuff like that. Does that stuff work as well?

Alex Larson (00:28:57):
Absolutely. Yep. Gummy bears, a very popular one. Those Nerds Clusters?

Jeff Barber (00:29:05):
Oh yes.

Alex Larson (00:29:06):
I have athletes that just go bananas for those and they fuel a lot of it. I had one that told me, he’s like, I keep the little packets of Nerds Clusters in my kit right under my chest. He goes, if you get them slightly warmed, he goes, that’s the perfect way to eat them. Those things are addictive. Yeah, so those ones work well. Fruit snacks, the little fruit snacks packs that your kids would eat, the fruit puree pouches, like applesauce pouches work really well. One puree pouch is about 15 grams of carbs, so you’d have to eat a lot of them to get enough carbs to support longer rides. But in terms of pre-workout, maybe early morning ride where you’re just trying to get out the door and you need to eat some quick carbs before you start, I usually grab one of those yogurt pouches or applesauce pouches and down a couple of those. Or granola bars. Costco has their Kirkland Chewy chocolate chip granola bars, super cheap and they’re delicious. And those work really well for a pre-workout fuel. Fig bars. Yeah, I mean anything kind of goes in terms of just easy digestible carbs.

Jeff Barber (00:30:23):
Yeah. Okay. That’s great to know.

Alex Larson (00:30:25):
Oh, Rice Krispies bars, those ones also are a winner.

Jeff Barber (00:30:27):
Yeah, those are delicious. I feel like the Nerds Gummy Clusters too, not only is it good fuel during a ride, but it’s like a huge morale boost every time you break that out and start passing them around, everybody starts having a better time. Good endorsement.

Alex Larson (00:30:45):
When we have a week at the lake with our family every summer. And I happened to be going to Costco the few days before and there was a party size bag of Nerds Clusters, and I was like, oh my God, my athletes would love this. I mean, it’s just ginormous bag. So yeah, I was like, I would bring that to the group and just be everyone’s best friend.

Jeff Barber (00:31:07):
Yeah. Awesome. So this next question, I think we’ve kind of covered this and maybe even in our last podcast conversation we covered this, but I think maybe there’s more of a psychology aspect to this, but someone asked if it’s okay to have no regrets about crushing a burrito the size of my head and a couple of beers after a ride. So yeah, I guess for a lot of us, food and nutrition, there is some of this guilt and stuff associated with it. So can you talk to that? How should we think about that kind of decision as athletes?

Alex Larson (00:31:46):
Yeah. I talk a lot about relationships with food with my athletes. Sometimes they come into our one-on-one coaching program with the goal of, I want to improve my relationship with food. And I ask them, what is your current relationship with it? And to them, it almost feels like something that they’re fighting against. And to me, I want food to be their training ally, like their best training partner, something that’s going to really truly enhance and empower them to be the best athlete that they can be. I think because a lot of cyclists can get a little over obsessed with weight and power to weight ratio and how many watts per kilo are they and how much weight they need to drop in order to have that more ideal ratio. And so a lot of people just associate eating with weight gain, and so they’re kind of afraid to eat and they associate junk food or more of those indulgent foods with weight gain as well. And so I just want them to feel informed in their food decisions and feel more confident in putting together their meals and snacks and fueling and feel good about it. That’s my goal.

(00:32:47):
And sometimes there’s an education piece, but also it takes some practice of learning how to eat well. I think of eating well as an athlete as a skill set, and some people don’t think of it that way. I’m like, no, it’s something you have to practice over and over and over and they’re going to make mistakes and it’s not a failure. It’s just kind of figuring out what works for you and what doesn’t for the unique busy lifestyle that athletes live. And so that to me is how I want people to look at food is like this is a training partner for you. I want you to feel empowered with the food that you eat. I want it to also have an enjoyment piece where you’re still including foods that you really love, that you like how you eat. It doesn’t feel like a diet where you’re on and off again. It’s just, hey, this is Jeff’s way of eating. It works really well for his active lifestyle and also meeting his goals and brings out the best in him, and he just feels like he’s eating like Jeff and it works for his lifestyle and his schedule. So that’s how I like to approach it.

(00:33:47):
In terms of finishing a ride and eating a burrito the size of your head and a couple beers, I have a couple thoughts. Hopefully you have fueled that ride enough that you’re not finishing the workout feeling absolutely completely depleted and starving and you’re about to eat your arm. We don’t want that. I want you fueled well enough that you’re like, yes, hungry. You might be due for a meal, but you’re not so underfueled that your body is in a 3,000, 4,000 calorie deficit. That’s not good. And it’s really hard on the gut to take in a burrito the size of your head.

Jeff Barber (00:34:59):
That’s a big burrito. That’s much bigger than Chipotle.

Alex Larson (00:35:01):
I’ve seen them before. I’ve been to some mom and pop restaurants where it’s like a college town and they served this breakfast burrito and it really truly was the size of your head. It was so large.

Jeff Barber (00:35:13):
I once ate one that you got a t-shirt if you ate the whole thing. I think it was like a five pound burrito and I finished it, but it didn’t feel good.

Alex Larson (00:35:20):
The Food Network’s got those shows where they show all of that stuff, and that’s really hard on the gut and it’s not going to, I mean, certainly you’re going to get a good dose of calories. There’s probably a ton of protein in there. There’s probably some carbs in there, but it’s also going to be really high in fat and it’s just going to be a beast to digest fat, and it’s just a lot of extra calories that you probably don’t need. I would be more strategic with that post ride meal in making sure you’re getting plenty of protein, plenty of carbs, but not going way overboard on calories. Because again, when I see athletes that’re like, yeah, the weight’s been creeping up two, three pounds every year and now it’s been five years and I’m up 15, 20 pounds.

(00:36:07):
It’s like, okay. It’s kind of these types of situations where you’re doing this massive indulgence where that can put you in that calorie surplus that can just see that slight little weight increase. And then next week you see that slight little weight increase and it’s a really sneaky body composition change. And the other thing is alcohol post ride. I don’t want to break any hearts here. It can dehydrate you and it can slow down recovery. So if you’re doing back to back training rides, if you’re trying to recover quickly from a race, you’ve got another race the next weekend, alcohol, I would say try and keep it to a minimum. Sure, you can have a small celebratory beer, but then let’s rehydrate you and really get you recovered back to baseline so you’re ready to go for the next race.

Jeff Barber (00:36:56):
Okay, yeah. Yeah, because alcohol, I mean it definitely can affect your sleep like you’re saying with recovery.

Alex Larson (00:37:03):
Oh, 100%.

Jeff Barber (00:37:04):
And there are plenty of good non-alcoholic beers now that you can celebrate with. Absolutely. We’re living in a golden age.

Alex Larson (00:37:12):
Yeah. I would say sober is starting to be a lot more trendy, which is fantastic.

Jeff Barber (00:37:15):
Yeah, absolutely. I’m curious, getting back to that idea of our relationships to food. You hear some people, maybe it’s more common with athletes that have the theory that food is fuel. You hear that, but is that an oversimplification or can that potentially even get you into trouble if that’s how you look at food?

Alex Larson (00:37:45):
I think of, I’ve got kids, I’ve got young kids. I’ve got an 8-year-old, a 5-year-old and an almost 2-year-old, and I talk to my boys about food is energy. My son, they talk a little bit about nutrition at school and don’t get me started on the nutrition education in elementary school. It’s not great, but he’s looking at the calories on food and he’s like, this has 150 calories, Mom. And I’m like, okay. And I’m like, what do you think a calorie is? And he’s like, I don’t know. I’m like, it’s just energy. That’s all it is. And you are a very active boy and you need energy, and so this is going to provide you energy. Or we talk about the importance of protein for growing strong muscles. And so my 5-year-old is like, Mom, I need some cottage cheese. I need some protein. I’m going to get really big muscles. He’s like, you’re so strong. To them, their food provides this energy and sometimes there’s protein in it. And then we talk about sugar. I’m like, there’s nothing wrong with sugar, but if you have too much sugar and you don’t have anything else with it, it might give you a stomach ache and it might not make you feel really great.

(00:38:52):
So if we’re going to have some candy, we just had a parade in town the other day where they got a bunch of candy. I’m like, hey, let’s maybe have some lunch with some protein in it, and then you can have some candy and you’re going to feel so much better and not feel sick from eating all that candy and not having anything else with it. And so just talking about the practicality of feeling really great, but also enjoying your food is a good approach to taking that. But I mean the food is fuel. I don’t mind that perspective on it, but I also think food is enjoyment, food is cultural, food is social. It’s a lot of things. It’s so many things. It’s not just fuel. So I think you need to come from a lot of different approaches. I’m even okay with sometimes food being comfort. I don’t love when athletes come in and they’re really big stress eaters. Food is the only stress reliever to them other than maybe exercise. And I’m like, okay, let’s maybe, and do you have a therapist? Let’s work through this.

(00:39:54):
I certainly think there’s food that can be comforting, but it shouldn’t be the only opportunity to provide comfort for someone as well. So it can be complex in that standpoint. The other thing that I hear from a lot of athletes is they will use their sports watch or their sports equipment. They’ll get done with a workout and they’ll be like, I burned 1200 calories in this workout and now I need to eat 1200 calories to replace that. I don’t like that because number one, our equipment, I’ve got a Coros watch, I’ve got a Garmin bike computer. They did a research study, and I can even give you the link to that study. They found in terms of energy expenditure, they were off by over 30% in energy expenditures. So all of them across the board.

Jeff Barber (00:40:50):
Both directions, they’re underestimating sometimes or overestimating?

Alex Larson (00:40:53):
Yeah, they were just off by over 30%. It didn’t matter if it was Garmin or Fitbit or Polar or all of the devices. Apple Watch, all of them are off by over 30%. Wow. So not only are you not getting accurate information in terms of energy expenditure from your equipment, but I find that athletes, they forget how much energy is required to recover from that workout, and that’s a lot of energy to recover. So it’s not just the energy you burned in the workout, but it’s also the energy that’s required to recover. And so for me, I tend to calculate energy needs based off of just activity level over the course of a week, how many hours are you training a week so that we can account for not just that training, but then also what it’s going to take to recover and function throughout the day.

Jeff Barber (00:41:51):
Your muscles are repairing and doing all sorts of things.

Alex Larson (00:41:54):
That requires energy to repair all that. It’s hard work. And then also looking at what’s your day-to-day life? Do you have a desk job or are you a construction worker and you’re active throughout the day? I had one athlete who worked at a grocery store. He walked minimum 15,000 steps a day just in his job and then was training for an Ironman. So he was an absolute furnace. We had him eating on a daily basis over 600 grams of carb. It was basically a daily carb loading for him every single day because he was very tall and lean. And when we carb loaded him, it was like 800 to 1000 calories for carb loading. It was wild. And on the bike I had him doing, we worked him up to 120 grams of carb per hour. He still would finish his long bike rides kind of hungry. And I was like, I think we can go higher. And yeah, we got up to 120 and he’s like, I feel so good. I was like, yeah, you’re kind of a furnace, man.

Jeff Barber (00:42:56):
That’s awesome. Cool. Well, so yeah, we talked about carbs and electrolytes. Another big one that people are talking about, not just athletes, just culture in general is protein and adding more protein to our diets, and especially people are thinking about it in terms of training, but also aging. So I’m curious, do you have a rule of thumb that you use for how much protein cyclists need per day? Where are we in that spectrum?

Alex Larson (00:43:27):
Yeah. I typically calculate protein based off body weight. So on average, 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight is on average what I might calculate. I might go up to 2 grams of protein per kilogram, but it also will depend on how much they are consuming on average as their baseline. So if I have an athlete that comes in and I’ll calculate 1.8 grams per kilo and they’re on average only eating maybe 30 grams less than that, I’m like, okay, this might be a really big jump for them to do an additional 30 grams every single day moving forward. So let’s maybe figure out a way to add 10, 15 grams, see how that feels, and then work them up to that optimal level. And then maybe if there’s still some room for them to do more, if we wanted to get them up to 2 grams per kilo, if they need that, then we can gradually work their way up. It’s hard to make really drastic changes in nutrition. Our body just loves to resist change. Doesn’t like change. It likes to see the same every single day. And so if we all of a sudden make really drastic changes in nutrition, it might initially feel okay, but then eventually our body’s just like, ugh, this is too much change and it’s overwhelming and we want to go back to our normal routine. So if we can make more small minor changes over time, usually that’s something that could stick, it’d be more sustainable for people.

Jeff Barber (00:44:59):
Okay. Is there any one area where you do find that athletes are generally deficient, be it protein or any other nutritional factor?

Alex Larson (00:45:12):
I see kind of a little bit of everything. It’s pretty common for us to not see athletes not getting enough protein, or they might be getting enough protein maybe three days a week, and then the other days they’re not getting enough. So there…

Jeff Barber (00:45:27):
You can’t bank it, right. That’s my understanding.

Alex Larson (00:45:31):
You need it every day. I find we do better if it’s more consistent throughout the week from a day-to-day basis, our body just tends to do a little bit better and also spreading it out a little bit more evenly throughout the day. A lot of athletes tend to be really skimpy on breakfast. It’s pretty common.

Jeff Barber (00:45:50):
Busy in the morning. Yeah, me, that’s me. I feel better now. Is that you?

Alex Larson (00:45:53):
So if we can get a much more substantial breakfast, if you’re getting 30, 35, 40 grams of protein at breakfast, that’s a really good head start on the day. And then you don’t have to have this massive dinner in the evening to try and catch up on nutrition. Same thing with lunch. If you maybe work through your lunch hour and you don’t really have much of a lunch and you’re only having maybe let’s say 10, 15 grams of protein on a measly sandwich, not enough. So then you get to four o’clock, you get done with work and you’re starving. You maybe have a snack, and then you have this big dinner, and then you have a bedtime snack and you’re still hungry and you’re grazing throughout the evening. What I like to see is let’s shift it to a much bigger breakfast, an actual lunch. A garden salad is not a lunch. Half of a peanut butter and jelly is not a lunch, like an actual meal. And then you can have maybe a mid-afternoon snack and a reasonable sized dinner. The energy level in people is so much more consistent throughout the day. Your appetite feels so much more regulated and under control from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed. People sleep better because they don’t have this big meal that their body’s trying to digest while they’re trying to sleep, which helps recovery. And they tend to notice that they are getting leaner and their workouts are feeling better, which is the best of both worlds. So there’s something to be said about redistributing nutrition throughout the day and starting with protein right away in the morning. Let’s say you work out in the morning, you finish with a nice solid breakfast with a good amount of protein, you’re helping yourself recover faster from that workout. You’re going to regulate appetite. You’re going to just feel better throughout the rest of the day.

Jeff Barber (00:47:40):
Yeah, interesting. So you mentioned some of the athletes that you’ve worked with that are concerned about weight gain or weight loss. And I know that’s not everybody for sure, but thinking about weight gain and weight loss, it seemed like for a while we heard that it wasn’t just calories in versus calories burned, but then now there’s these new drugs on the market that kind of will suppress appetite and things like that. And now it sounds like maybe the message is that it’s that simple. If athletes eat less, they’re going to gain less weight. Is that accurate or is it much more complex than that?

Alex Larson (00:48:23):
It’s a little more complicated than that, than calories in, calories out for endurance athletes at least. So what I have found over the years with body, I say body composition because when athletes come to me and they say they want to lose weight, what they really mean is they want to lose the excess body fat. They want to keep the muscle, if not put on a little bit more muscle. They want to feel more toned, more ripped per se. They’re like, I want to look like an athlete.

Jeff Barber (00:48:50):
That’s my 12-year-old already.

Alex Larson (00:48:54):
Aesthetics is what’s important.

Jeff Barber (00:48:56):
Yeah.

Alex Larson (00:48:56):
And there’s nothing wrong with that. People are like, well, it’s kind of a little bit aesthetics. I’m like, that’s fine. You want to look and feel good, I get it. But we have to do it the healthy way. And for a lot of athletes who try and improve body composition on their own, to them, all they have to do is they’re like, oh, I’m just going to eat less. I’m going to restrict. And what happens is they’ll start eating less and restricting, and then they can’t finish their workouts. They usually, their power on the bike just nose dives. They can’t keep up with the normal people in their group ride, and that sucks, right? They get really frustrated really quick. And the other thing that might happen is they get really hungry trying to still do all of this activity, but they’re not eating as much and their body’s like, I need fuel. And you’re just starving all the time, and eventually willpower is going to give out and you’re going to binge and overeat to try and compensate for being so hungry. And then it’s this vicious roller coaster and cycle.

(00:50:04):
So how I approach it is in our program, and it’s nice to have us kind of monitoring athletes because we want to do this in, I said the healthiest way possible that preserves that muscle mass, keeps their performance and power on the bike, if not improving power on the bike, but seeing that body composition come down. And so we will use a food journal to track what they’re eating and drinking because if we’re not losing weight, then we can look back on the journal and kind of figure out, okay, here’s next steps of what we need to implement to see if we can get that body weight to come down. And also, if workouts aren’t feeling quite great, we can again look back on the journal and say, okay, let’s make these tweaks here. We still want to make sure that you’re feeling really good and you’ve got, your appetite feels regulated, you’re not going hungry. We want to have this be a really seamless process. So we do use a food journal. It’s temporary, and I don’t want athletes to feel like they’re on a diet, but it’s just there as a learning tool. And we will put them at a bit of a calorie deficit, not a lot, maybe 300 to 500 calories, and we will not diet on the bike. Absolutely not. We will not go into the rides figuring out what’s the least amount of calories we can take in to get through this ride. I don’t want to approach it that way. I want to say, hey, how can we fuel this workout really well to get the best performance out of it? Because we want to fuel you more when you’re more active because food is fuel from that perspective. So let’s fuel this workout really well and get the most out of it, and then let’s look elsewhere in the day. Where can we put you at a calorie deficit elsewhere and still get enough protein to support recovery and maintain muscle mass and have you feel really great throughout the rest of the day? And that’s where we kind of work that balance between the two to see body composition improve and maintain performance.

Jeff Barber (00:52:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, I mean, it sounds like too that obviously as athletes, we need to be able to listen to our body, and that’s kind of the first clue, the appetite and knowing that you need more.

Alex Larson (00:52:21):
Yeah, our body is really smart. That’s the thing. When I tell athletes I want them to eat a big breakfast in the morning, they panic. They’re like, no, I am binging all of this food in the evening, and if I add more food at breakfast, I’m just going to gain all this weight. And I’m like, your body is smart. I’m like, if you eat enough during the day, you’re not going to have any of those sweets cravings or epic hunger in the evening. You’re just going to be like, I’m not even that hungry. I’m just going to have a smaller dinner and go to bed. And they’re shocked every single time. They’re like, oh my God, I thought I would be so hungry in the evening still. And now they’re like, I’m not. And I just go to bed and I sleep so well, and I’m just floored by it. And I’m like, I hear this from every single athlete. It’s so interesting.

Jeff Barber (00:53:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I wonder though, if these drugs break that connection where it’s harder for you to tell, would that be a challenge?

Alex Larson (00:53:19):
Yeah, so the GLP-1 meds will basically, you just don’t have an appetite. You just don’t feel like eating. We haven’t seen a lot of athletes on GLP-1s. We’ve had one athlete, she’s not a cyclist, she was a runner and took an off season to go on the GLP-1. She wanted to lose postpartum. She had a baby and she wanted to lose the weight postpartum. I will give her credit. She had a DEXA scan before she started the GLP-1, which is basically kind of a body analysis in terms of body fat percentage, muscle mass, bone density, all of that. She ate a ton of protein while she was on the GLP-1 to try and maintain muscle mass because she was really hoping to minimize that muscle loss and just see body fat come down. She hit her goal weight on the GLP-1, but then she did another DEXA scan, and she was actually really disappointed that she lost quite a bit of muscle on that med.

(00:54:29):
And so that was kind of a learning for her. She was like, oh, shoot. She’s like, I ate so much protein to really try and combat that. She was, I’m really surprised I still lost that much muscle mass. So now she’s working with us to try and build that muscle back and maintain her weight, which she’s been doing so far. She’s been with us for a few months now, but I do wish she hadn’t done the GLP-1, and she had just worked with us to lose it the right way because now she’s having, because yeah, it’s just starving yourself to lose weight just is never the healthiest way to go about it, even though I think GLP-1s certainly have a place out there. I think they’re just not the answer for everyone, especially for athletes when they’re wanting to be that active and you’re having to do these epic events that you really love training for. We need to keep you healthy and strong.

Jeff Barber (00:55:24):
Yeah. Yeah. That’s good because on the surface, it does seem like that would make sense. You take the drug to get to a weight where you’re ready to put in more workouts and increase your training and then go off of it. But yeah, it sounds like if you can do it without it, that’s probably better.

Alex Larson (00:55:45):
If you have to be on a GLP-1, you have to also put in the behavior changes with your nutrition. Otherwise you’re going to have to be on that GLP-1 for the rest of your life. As soon as people come off it, that hunger comes back, and then they don’t know how to handle that. So it’s like, let’s work on the behavior change and the psychology of it a little bit there. The habits to set you up for long-term success.

Jeff Barber (00:56:07):
Yeah, that’s great. So one last question before we wrap up. Another big thing that people are hearing a lot about is artificial intelligence in all aspects of our lives, but I’m curious to know what role AI plays in nutrition planning. Is this something athletes should be using or avoiding, or is there a good way to use it? What are your thoughts?

Alex Larson (00:56:31):
Yeah, that’s a really good question. I am a part of a lot of different dietician Facebook groups, and there’s a lot of different opinions on it, and I think some dieticians are afraid that it’s going to take away our job, and I don’t approach it that way. I think AI can certainly be a tool for people to use. I think people are already using it, so let’s just help you use it better to get more out of it. I think using AI to maybe help just provide some inspiration for meal planning could be great. And you can be really specific with AI. You can say, hey, I am looking, I’m an endurance runner. I need to make sure that because I do my morning workouts that my breakfasts have 30 grams of protein and a good dose of carbs and I want to keep it lean protein. What type of breakfast ideas do you have in mind for me and can you give me some recipes of something that I can maybe prep the night before or make in 15 minutes to get myself out the door and to work kind of thing?

(00:57:45):
You can make it specific to your lifestyle and it can offer you some inspiration and ideas to keep things interesting, or maybe you have a food allergy, hey, I’m allergic to eggs and I need some breakfast ideas that are going to get me 30 grams of protein that don’t include eggs. You could be creative in that way. The things that AI doesn’t help with is helping you change your eating habits and your behavior changes. That’s something that really, it’s helpful to have some accountability. It’s where like my team, we can come in, we can look at your life. We can say, hey, let’s start here with making these changes and talking about what are the challenges of breakfast time. Maybe it’s that you’ve got kids that you’re trying to get out the door, maybe you just don’t have a lot of time. What can we prep in advance? What kind of convenience foods can we buy that are going to make your life easier? I’m always saying if we can figure out a way to tap that easy button as much as possible with nutrition and still get you the good stuff that you need, let’s do it. I love bagged salad kits. I always have, I do chicken Caesar salad because I buy rotisserie chickens from Costco and I just use those for all sorts of different meals. I just don’t have time to remember the mental load of defrosting the chicken, getting it cooked and then having it accessible every three or four days versus my husband can swing by Costco when he’s driving around for work and for five bucks I can pull off all the chicken and I can use that for three, four different meals.

Jeff Barber (00:59:19):
Yeah. Well, I mean, how much of your, as a sports dietician nutritionist is meal planning versus higher level stuff? I would assume?

Alex Larson (00:59:29):
I think it’s got to be both because I mean for an endurance athlete, every meal and snack the rest of your day, because of the volume and frequency that you’re training is an opportunity for you to support your body in recovering from that workout and preparing for the next one and maintaining body composition and making sure that you have the energy to still be a great parent or a great employer or coworker. All of those things matter in terms of quality of life, not just performance. I think it all fits, and so if I can help athletes figure out how to put better meals on their table in front of them that are going to give them the energy to succeed in life both on and off the bike, that’s a win in my book. So I am trying to live it myself. I got three kids. I run my own business. I’m trying to train nine hours a week on the bike for gravel races. It’s a lot, and so I have to put my best foot forward nutrition-wise to give me the energy to do all of that.

Jeff Barber (01:00:35):
Yeah, it’s definitely a challenge and I’m sure that’s for a lot of us, that is a big part of it is just the day to day. The logistics of it alone.

Alex Larson (01:00:44):
Can be challenging. It’s so tiring, and then just the mental load of trying to remember what to eat every single day. So one gal this week was like, is it okay if you eat the same thing every single day? And I’m like, what if you just changed up slight parts of those meals to give yourself a little thing, keep it interesting. Let’s say you always do tacos Tuesday night. Maybe one week you do beef. The other week you do chicken, another week you do carnitas, another week you do fish tacos. You don’t have to think about what to make that night other than just tweaking the protein in it or the side dish on it, or changing up to do a different salad as your side. Thinking of it that way lessens the decision making, but adds some variety in it so that it’s just a little different.

Jeff Barber (01:01:37):
Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Well, Alex, thanks so much for answering these questions. Some of them serious, some a little ridiculous. Where can our listeners go to learn more about your work and connect with you if they’re looking for nutrition support?

Alex Larson (01:01:52):
Yeah, my website is AlexLarsonNutrition.com. I’ve got a blog on there. If you go to social channels like Instagram, Facebook, I’m at Alex Larson Nutrition, and then I also, this year, this is new, I have my own podcast. It’s called Endurance Eats. You can find that anywhere that you listen to podcasts and on YouTube.

Jeff Barber (01:02:11):
Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining us and thanks to all our listeners for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and check out more at Singletracks.com/podcast. We’ll catch you next time. Peace.