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Pretty stoked, wheel building will be my full time gig in a few months!
http://southernwheelworks.com/2015/09/28/going-all-in/
The wife and I always said we would move to central GA to be closer to family (it pretty much splits the difference between our two families), and we’ve decided now is the time. My wife has a job lined up, and I’m going to focus on building wheels full time. We’ve found a house and have it under contract, and now I’m looking into where to set up shop. I’m hoping our current house will sell for enough that I can have a shop built at our new house. Then I can set it up exactly the way I want, and it’ll be more economical in the long run vs renting a space somewhere.
We should be moving into the new house the first week in December. I’m going to stay on with my current employer full time until our current house sells, so not sure exactly when I’ll officially be full time on wheels, but hopefully by the end of the year!
By ‘dinged up’ are you talking about cosmetic scratches, or has the metal actually bent any? If you’ve hit or landed a jump hard enough to flat spot the rim that’ll cause all sorts of issues, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case.
At 195lbs you shouldn’t have any problems with wheels – if they’re built right. And that is the key, they have to be built right. Stock wheels are machine built, and the machines are great at getting the wheel round, true, and dished – so they look perfect. BUT, keeping spoke tension even is what makes a wheel durable, and machines are not so great at that. If you pluck the spokes like guitar strings they’ll make a tone, the spokes on each side of a wheel should all make about the same tone. Different tone = different tension. That’s what’s causing your spokes to break. Uneven tension leads to fatigue, which leads to failure.
Replacing a broken spoke doesn’t fix the problem by itself, you’ve got to go through the wheel and get the tension even, which can take some time, and most bike shops don’t take the time to do it (and many don’t even know that they should). BUT, at this point, even that isn’t going to fix it, because the fatigue (from riding with uneven tension) is already there, so the spokes are on borrowed time.
But yeah, 29ers are great, and if you like the way the bike rides, getting a well built set of wheels will cure your problems.
- I know this next question is difficult to answer depending on where/how we ride, but…What is the expected life on a wheel that is ridden off-road? Based on my previous experiences less than 2 seasons seems like a very short life (Typically ride ~800 – 850 offroad miles per season)?
- Does investing more into a new set of wheels make sense & will it increase the life of my wheels….OR…Should I save my money and buy cheap wheels knowing there are other factors in play that will continue to plaque me due to my wheel size & riding style?
The wheels should last a long time. Stock wheels suck a lot of times though. A set of well built wheels won’t break spokes, they’ll last until you destroy the rim or something like that. The wheel size isn’t a problem either.
How much do you weigh? Are the rims dented up?
"Areone" wroteI ride it pretty hard and I’m not a light guy so it’s taking abuse which is why I assume I’m having issues. That or there’s something wrong. Is it unheard of to use a light thread lock on spokes?
Not unheard of at all, Stan’s does it on all their wheels. It’s a bandaid fix for a bigger problem though. It won’t stop the spokes from going slack, but it will keep the nipples from backing off. So the wheel will stay true, BUT, it’s still going to break spokes. I’ve rebuild several sets of Stan’s wheels that had this issue, they stayed true for a year or so, but then started breaking spokes regularly. A full rebuild with new spokes is the only way to fix it.
"gar29" wrote[quote="dgaddis":2ykju7tj]Road wheels are less ’cause the hubs are less expensive, and they’re often built with fewer spokes/nipples as well. This set was was only $530 shipped.
That’s a lite set of wheels for that price![/quote:2ykju7tj]
Alloy rims are all more or less the same price, they typically range from $80-$110. Those are about in the middle of the price range, and are very, very light.
Hubs are the biggest driving factor for the cost, and the Bitex hubs are sweet because they’re inexpensive, well made, light, and available in lots of colors and drilling options. Most low cost hubs are heavy and only 32 and 36 hole, which means a lot of folks will end up with wheels that are overbuilt and heavier than needed. But the Bitex hubs allow for a light set of wheels, with the proper spoke count to fit the riders weight and riding style, without breaking the bank. I like ’em!
Keep an eye on that wheel, depending on how long the spokes were at too low of a tension, you’ve likely got some broken spokes in your future.
Here’s my take as a wheel builder, if you’d come to me for a custom set.
At 275lbs you should really be on some 36 spoke wheels, with a stout rim, and a high torque capable hub. There are not a lot of options for 36 spoke modern rims, but the Stan’s Flow EX is available in a 36H drilling in the 29er size and I’ve had great success using those for big guys such as yourself. It’s wide, strong, and stiff.
As for the hubs:
The DT Swiss hubs Star Ratchet mechanism is really good for handling high torque loads, they’re cheap (the 350 is at least, which uses the exact same Star Ratchet internals as the much more expensive 240S hubs) but they are not available in a 36H drilling. So, in my mind, they’re out.
While I love I9, it’s not what I’d recommend for a guy your size. The teeth in the drive ring are very fine, and there’s only 3 pawls engaging at a time, so if you get any dirt or grit in there, combined with your power, you could get slipping and start breaking stuff. Also, not available in 36 spoke drilling.
Hope is a similar pawl type design as I9, but 4 pawls engage at a time, and the teeth are larger and more robust (40 points of engagement). They also offer a stainless steel freehub body which I would highly recommend, it’s stronger than the alloy, so there’s less gouging from the cassette, and less chance of the pawls damaging the freehub body. The stainless freehub doesn’t cost any extra either, which is nice. They are available in a 36 hole drilling, come in several colors, are reasonably priced, and are made in the UK.
White Industries and Hadley are also available in a 36 hole drillings, and are both solid options, and both have titanium freehub bodies which is nice. White is a 3-pawl mechanism with 24 points of engagement, Hadley is 4 pawl with 72 points. Both are more expensive than Hope, but they’re both made in the USA.
The best option happens to be one of the most expensive, and that’s Chris King. Their Ring Drive mechanism is similar to DT’s in that it’s two face gears and all of the teeth engage simultaneously, so the load is distributed over a larger area. It also happens to have fast engagement (72 points), and is made in the USA. They also offer a stainless freehub body, but it cost extra (everything cost extra with King!) and isn’t really required if you use a cassette that has a carrier to distribute the load over a larger area (which is a good idea with any hub for a guy your size). Kings are expensive, no doubt. But they’re a top shelf product that with a little routine maintenance every year or so they’ll outlive many frames. They’ll become obsolete from changing standards before you kill them.
That’s my $0.02, fire away with any questions!
"schwim" wroteLooking at your builds is like going to an art gallery. I know I’ll never own any but love looking anyway 😀
Glad you’re doing well and hope you get to hang out with us some. We just recently had a post concerning exploding hubs in which I’m sure your advice would have served much better than ours.
While I do build quite a few high end, and high dollar wheels, I’ve got some very reasonably priced options too, so don’t rule me out if you’re ever in the market! MTB wheels start just over $500 before shipping and/or tax. Road wheels are less ’cause the hubs are less expensive, and they’re often built with fewer spokes/nipples as well. This set was was only $530 shipped.
$500 wheels are built with the same love and care as the $1800 wheels.
Howdy guys and gals! Just thought I’d post an update, been too busy to spend much time in forums lately!
Things are going great at Southern Wheelworks. I’ve been really busy turning out wheels lately, and invested in a Morizumi spoke machine that makes my life a whole lot easier.
I sponsored Neil Beltchenko this year, aka gimmearaise here on Singletracks. I built him a crazy awesome set of bikepacking wheels (dynamo front hub to power lights/electronics, ENVE carbon rims, and an I9 rear hub) and he has put a boatload of miles on them. He won the Stagecoach 400 earlier this year, and had an AMAZING ride in the Tour Divide, beating the previous course record, setting the fastest rookie time ever, and finishing in 3rd only 40mins behind 1st place after more than 2700 miles!
There’s more stuff coming down the pipeline in the near future that I’m REALLY excited about, but can’t unveil it just yet. 😄
If anyone wants a t-shirt, I’m taking pre-orders for them now.
"Life is too short to ride crappy wheels."Be sure and follow along on Facebook and Instagram to see the latest. I’ll try and do a better job of hanging around the forums here more frequently!
Photodump:
The new spoke machine.
Chris King Mango – soooo good!
Old school(ish) Powertap disc brake MTB hub.
White spokes flanking the valve
Project 321 Lefty hub
Customer’s bike"gar29" wroteThat is a sweet ride! Should the tires be 28 instead of 38? Love the looks of the steel frame.
My son has a Fuji with the Shimano discs and is running 700x28s. Comfortable bike! I would highly recommend discs on a trekking bike.
Nope, they’re 38’s! Nice and phat.
A few more pics from a ride last weekend.
I also swapped out the fat-tire go-anywhere wheels for a set of skinny-tire go fast tires for paved duty. It’s definitely faster on the pavement, and still really smooth. Wouldn’t be as capable off-pavement of course.
So far so good. They feel just like my Shimano SLX brakes I have on my MTBs. WAY better than rim brakes for sure. Sketchy gravel dowhills, in the drops, one finger on brake is all you need.
I bet most of you had forgotten about this right? I know most locals had. It gets brought up once and a while, but it’s not on anyone’s mind any more.
Until the alleged victim got himself arrested for threatening the editor of the Metro Spirit.
Now keep in mind, up until this point his name had not been released. Had he just kept his mouth shut most folks would never know. But now there’s a name and picture.
While losing weight will make you faster, PLENTY of riders over 220lbs shred the trails – my average customer for wheels is about 200lbs. Besides, it sounds like speed/fitness isn’t the biggest issue, it’s bike handling.
To the OP – Find someone who is better than you who will ride with you and give you pointers. They can watch you and see where you’re making mistakes. Don’t worry at all about going fast, don’t put any pressure on yourself – ride just because it’s fun. If you get to something you’re not comfortable riding yet, walk it. Or wait and watch others ride it to see how they do it.
MTBing isn’t all about going fast – it’s about fun, and there’s a lot of ways to have fun on a MTB. Keep at it, stay positive, and progress at your own rate, the skills will come if you want them. And as mentioned before, if some light weight body armor helps with confidence (and injury prevention), use it!
Also, I’d suggest if you stay with platform pedals get some good riding shoes, look into Five Ten (510? 5Ten? Five10?) they are what all the platform guys recommend, and get some decent pedals – you don’t have to spend a lot, some simple BMX pedals will get it done. Regular sneakers suck balls, especially combined with lousy pedals, they’re a death trap.
Just keep riding, you’ll keep getting stronger and stronger!
And it’s hard to compare mileage in different areas, we don’t have big ups or downs, just rolling terrain, and trails aren’t technical so you can move at a pretty good clip.
Plus, I’ve been riding mostly SS in the woods for 5 or 6 years now. It certainly makes you a stronger rider!
"rsb201" wroteThat is an awesome day on the ol’ SS !!!! What gearing you running?? I hate the pavement rides between trailheads. Its easy to get dropped for sure.
I’m using a 32×19, on a 29er. It’s pretty much perfect for the trails around here, but a taller gear would certainly help on the pavement!
We did the same route in reverse this weekend, and it was also a great day in the saddle. The leaves are all off the trees now though, now they’re covering the trail. The crunch is deafening 😄
http://southernwheelworks.com/2014/12/13/leaf-season/
Yeah it just depends on what you’re looking for. It’s worth looking into either way, at least you’ll know what your options are.
My last new MTB I went the custom build route, not because it was cheaper (it certainly was not in my case) but because no one offered exactly what I wanted. I wanted a SS 29er with a steel frame using track end dropouts, not an EBB (creak creak creak) or sliders (ugly and heavy), with a rigid carbon fork. Heck, I don’t think anyone offers that now as a complete bike…
I built up a Vassago Jabberwocky with a White Brothers Rock Solid rigid carbon fork and high quality stuff all around – RaceFace carbon bars, Thomson bar/stem, custom wheels I built myself, etc. It was expensive, but it was exactly what I wanted and I’ve been riding it for ~5yrs now. Some parts have changed or got swapped with other bikes. I even had the frame stripped and re-powder coated last year. LOVE that bike and wont bother replacing it until I have the cash to get a custom frame built.
The day it was built up:
Current setup.
"singlecoil" wrotehave you considered building your own? IMO best bang for your buck comes from custom building…
That has not been my experience at all. Going custom does mean getting exactly what you want, but it almost always means spending more money, often a LOT more money. Now if you’re buying used or finding some crazy deals here it might change things a little. And if you buy a complete and then change out a lot of stuff it might be cheaper to just go custom from the start. But if you can find a complete that’s pretty close to what you want, that’s the best bang for the buck.
For example, Giant used to have a bottom of the line Anthem X 29er that had a Fox fork and rear shock, and SLX drivetrain (I think). They also sold just the frame with a shock (Fox, little higher end shock than what came on the bottom end complete). If you bought the frame and a Fox fork it would cost a few bucks MORE than the complete bike that also had a Fox shock and fork, and EVERYTHING else needed to ride it. Even if all you wanted was the frame, the smart financial move was the buy the complete and sell off the parts you don’t want.
Yep, everyone is different when it comes to building parts they didn’t supply. There’s more money to be made if you sell the parts.
I’ll do it 😉 but I also charge a build fee when customers supply any of the parts. Typically it’s carbon chinese rims or old hubs getting built to new rims, it’s pretty rare someone brings hubs & rims, but has happened. If a customer buys all the parts through me I don’t charge a build fee.
I don’t let customers provide spokes however because I want to make sure they’re the right lengh, if they’re not you can run into reliability problems.
Speaking of that hub in particular, I’ve never heard of them before but I’m not too on the up-and-up when it comes to DJ parts. At $220 though you’re not far from the Hope Pro 2 Evo SS hub. Same hub Danny MacAskill rides. The Hope is lighter and has faster engagement, 80 points vs only 24 in the NS, and the axle is available and convertible to every standard out there. Bolt on, QR, thru-bolt, thru-axle, etc. And it comes in several color options.
Hi singlecoil – welcome to the wonderful world of wheelbuilding!
Selecting the proper spokes isn’t quite as easy as putting number into a spoke calculator. Well it is actually, it’s just trig, BUT, you have to know your numbers are good. Garbage in = garbage out.
Basically you can’t trust manufacturer supplied dimensions, especially for the ERD of the rims – these are very rarely correct in my experience. You need to measure them yourself to verify the #’s are correct. I could easily look at the provided dimensions, put them in my spoke calc, and tell you what length spokes you need, but without knowing if the numbers are good I wont do it. Once you do measure them up I’ll be happy to help you with the calculation though!
My advice: Get this e-book and read it, all of it, not just the spoke calc section. You’ll gain a good understanding of how wheels work and why certain parts are better than others for various applications. It’s $15 well spent.
If you decide it’s too daunting of a task to build them yourself, find a wheel builder to build them for you. One of your local shops may have a wheel guru, or you may need to look elsewhere.
I’ll say this – building good wheels isn’t hard to do, it just takes patience and attention to detail. The proper tools help a lot, sure you could build a wheel without a truing stand and there are people "who have never used anything other than a spoke wrench" but proper tools make the job easier, especially your first time. I built my first set with borrowed tools, that’s a great way to do it if you don’t want to spend a lot of money on tools you may never use again.
My first wheel took about 6hrs because I laced it wrong a few times and had to start over 😳 But once I got the set done, they were awesome. Rode them on a rigid SS for about 4 years and never had to touch them again. Eventually took them apart and built the hubs up with different rims just to try something different.
"gar29" wroteLove the black and gold look on that bike!
Thanks, me too! It’s kind of polarizing, some folks don’t like it, but I do and that’s all that matters haha.
The chainring was the first gold bit, no rhyme or reason why I choose gold. Frame was white at the time. Then I got the stem top cap as a SWAG item at the Snake Creek Gap Time Trials one year, and I opt’d for gold to match the chainring. Sometime later I had the frame stripped and powder coated flat black. Then when I built the wheels up, gold hubs and nipples were the natural choice.
But – that’s as far as the color matchy matchy will go. Lots of folks over do it IMO.
