March 3, 2018 at 3:58 pm #236052
I guess I won’t be shopping at REI or Dicks anymore. There is no compromise for ANY of our Constitutional Rights, that is what makes us the United States.
You know come to think of it, I do need a new CamelBak!!! Maybe I’ll buy two…hmmmm.
Businesses should stay out of bad politics, and be more concerned with providing the best products and services.
March 3, 2018 at 9:25 pm #236054
And all people should keep in mind (and I hope already understand) that the right to own a weapon was NOT primarily for hunting. It was to first defend ourselves from someone who is doing us physical harm. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, it was for us to defend ourselves against government if it goes a rye. Those are facts we all need to be well aware of. We should not fall asleep and be naive to assume that our government could not someday turn against us the people. Honestly, we are all certainly capable of doing some good in this world, but we all also have evil inside us … … if you don’t believe that just look at the news … … look at the outburst and out of control anger you see, look at the harm done to little girls and women … … but also just look at your own life or your own thoughts … … my own life and my own thoughts. So politicians have evil in them also. I hope that is self-evident throughout history to each of us — corruption, oppression of people, misuse of power, etc, etc. So just because we have had a relatively safe extended period of history in our country and with our government, we should not be so naive to think that will continue forever. Our forefathers held this concern, and thus gave us this right to own a weapon. First, they gave us good laws to limit government. Second, they gave us good checks and balances against each part of the government to control government. Third, they gave us the ability to defend ourselves if government went very bad. I have concerns of how the first two protections have been eroding. So we need to be vigilant and not naive. BUT I agree there should be regulations concerning of guns and weapons for sure. What the proper balance is I will not pretend to know, but it is not to overturn our 2nd amendment. That would be to foolishly over trust government.
March 3, 2018 at 9:49 pm #236057
I’m a gun owner and I’m not sure anyone is actually talking about “overturning our 2nd amendment” by outlawing guns….. Just simply trying to fix some very wrong things, like a 19yr old kid who has had problems with the law as well as emotional issues being able to easily and legally buy a gun that is designed to kill humans, and is used by only the most highly trained police officers (SWAT) and the military.
The rhetoric of the extreme on both sides is mind numbing…
March 3, 2018 at 9:43 pm #236055
Lawmanfl: I understand Dicks, LOL.
But what did REI do?
March 6, 2018 at 7:04 pm #236162
They did the same as Walmart and are making their policies great than the government. I don’ t have any issue with their ability to do whatever they want with their polices, but these businesses are doing so as a political statement.
They must understand, all of us law abiding citizens have the ability to do the same. I will bring my money to companies that reflect my value of respecting, honoring, and valuing the Constitution; not changing their own long-standing policies for political/monetary gain to comfort the left.
March 4, 2018 at 6:05 am #236058
I agree with you DBone that certain problems need fixed. But if you do not understand that some want to repeal the 2nd amendment, then I think that is quite naive. Here is just one of many articles. This article was printed on Oct 5, 2017 in the NYT.
March 6, 2018 at 7:09 pm #236163
….people kill people, not guns. If that line of reason were true then we need to outlaw cars, because over 10,000 people are KILLED every year by drunk drivers.
I am with you 100%, and there needs to be a solution. Let’s start by enforcing the laws we have on the books and hold those accountable that it is their jobs.
March 6, 2018 at 7:14 pm #236166
…..by the way, I would never have bothered bringing this up, but I am merely responding to the article posted by Single Tracks.
March 4, 2018 at 7:27 am #236059
Well I’m boycotting REI and Dicks also, but not for the gun control issue. I own guns, but I’ve never bought one from REI. They don’t sell guns. Never have.
It’s more a case of ‘throwing out the baby with the bathwater’. Giro helmets don’t kill people – guns do. I’ve never heard of anyone’s life or liberty being threatened by a CamelBak. Yet in trying to be PC, some boneheads at Dicks and REI think not selling Bell products makes the company seem more socially responsible. Perhaps those same assholes don’t realize that my local bike shops carry those products. Yet they don’t sell AR-15’s.
So I’ll vote with my wallet. Big changes need to happen in the US regarding gun violence. Not selling certain brands of biking gear won’t help.
March 4, 2018 at 5:00 pm #236063
As someone mentioned, this subject is numbing. Far to much misunderstanding, too mush rhetoric, too much hysteria… it goes on and on. I too am a gun owner… many in fact. All legally owned, legally purchased, and legally used… and by a LEGAL immigrant. Just sayin’. And yes, there are many things happening involving guns, and we’re faced with the difficult task of determining the best solution to protect and appease everyone. But regarding the comment “…don’t kill people – guns do.” I get the statement and the feeling behind it, but try has hard as I may, I can stare at my guns all day long, and never once has a single one of those guns attempted to kill me. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. That would be like saying forks male people fat. The ugly truth is… people are the problem. If guns didn’t exist, there would be another means in place to commit the acts of murder by these troubled individuals. My guns help protect me and my loved ones from those individuals. And if made illegal to own, then those guns would only be in the possession of the every criminals that commit those crimes, leaving me without protection…
March 4, 2018 at 10:54 am #236060
My $.000002 for what it’s worth:
- I agree with the sentiment expressed that companies should stay out of political/social issues. I am so sick and tired of being bombarded with messages around politics, social issues and PC. Not only should companies steer clear of these issues, but I really don’t give sh!t about what athletes, actors, “reality???” tv stars, etc. think about an issue. For many of us, MTB is an out, a release from the daily grind, an opportunity to focus on something that can be so rewarding both physically and psychologically and it should not be dragged into politics… unless it’s about building trails or gaining access to others 😉
- As for guns, I don’t own a gun but don’t have a problem with people (generally) owning guns. But folks, what is happening in this country is ludicrous. We can debate ad nauseum what the intent of our forefathers was at the time the constitution was written when weaponry was far less advanced. And how far do you take the argument: should everyone be allowed to own a semi-automatic weapon? If yes, what about a fully automatic weapon? then how about a bazooka? what about a tank, an Apache helicopter? how about a nuclear weapon??? (I’ve had people tell me that if they had the financial means they should be able to purchase whatever the government is able to purchase). I realize the absurdity but the point is: where do you draw the line??? Who determines what us growed up colonists should be able to own or not? Whereas there’s always the possibility that at some point the government may turn against the people how many innocent people (especially kids) need to die senselessly if/when the time occurs that we have a legitimate reason to break out our arsenal? It would certainly seem that some additional safeguards are warranted. What, if any, are put in place should be done by our representatives in government (we elected them) and not unduly influenced by companies, lobbyists and those egotistical athletes, actors and reality tv idiots with large twitter followings.
Now get out and ride!
March 4, 2018 at 4:45 pm #236061
I am speaking from growing up around guns, being in the military where I was required to carry a gun to protect sensitive information and peoples lives, and now being a civilian and wanting to protect myself from the evils of this world: I believe (and I think most gun owners would agree) that everyone (yes, you too) should be armed with their weapon of choice, as it reduces the possibility of becoming a victim.
The current law specifically prohibits a firearm on school grounds, and it also specifically prohibits murder… both of which are ignored by people intending harm on innocent children. Since “gun control” on school grounds is proving to be more and more ineffective, why not actually allow firearms to be carried by school faculty? Let’s take Utah, for example, which allows legal concealed carry on school campuses and even holds concealed carry classes on campus? They all go through a much more throughout background check, they are trained on the proper handling of a weapon, and they are much more likely to stop an active shooter before they take innocent lives.
When I was on a nuclear submarine, we operated on a “mutually assured destruction” theory —> If you shoot me, I will shoot you back and neither of us win. North Korea does not shoot on us because we also have a button to shoot back. The same theory holds true for guns – an active shooter will not walk into a police station, because he knows he will be shot and killed before he can enter the door. If active shooters know they will be shot and killed before they can make it into a classroom, there will be no more school shootings. Period.
Back on topic, its pathetic of REI and Dicks to essentially accuse Vista Outdoor of supporting school shootings. I won’t be setting foot in either of those stores again.
March 6, 2018 at 7:11 pm #236165
Dude, I’m with you 100% I want an Apache and a Abrams Tank!!! If she thinks my tractor is sexy, what about a tank…..ha, ha.
March 4, 2018 at 4:55 pm #236062
DBone, The AR15 is one of the most popular guns owned in America, it isn’t just used by Police or the Military. Its been sold for 50 years, there is around 5 million of them owned by the public.
March 4, 2018 at 6:56 pm #236064
The 2nd Amendment was NOT, first for self defense. James Madison originally proposed the Second Amendment shortly after the Constitution was officially ratified as a way to provide more power to state militias, which today are considered the National Guard. It was deemed a compromise between Federalists — those who supported the Constitution as it was ratified — and the anti-Federalists — those who supported states having more power. Having just used guns and other arms to ward off the English, the amendment was first and foremost originally created to give citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government.
And the argument that the way the commas are situated into three clauses, that show it was for personal rights not just collective rights is moot. As while it appears on the ceremonial documents this way: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. The actual way it was written when sent to the states, and ratified by them was: A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed. The extra two commas was added by the calligrapher because he thought it looked better.
March 5, 2018 at 5:28 am #236069
Sooo… an observation. This is a hot subject everywhere you go. This and many other topics seem to bring out the worst. And it never fails that discussions regarding this topic, and others, turn into nothing but hysterical left/right bashing, name calling, and useless rhetoric. But here in this form, the posts have been calm and respectful, without retaliation for expressing opinions. Must be the mountain bike mentality. Just another reason I like mountain biking… THE PEOPLE! 🙂
March 5, 2018 at 8:53 am #236077
Fred, well said and so very true. I actually learn things from fellow singletracks posters on all sorts of topics — even the topic today — because there is not all the ranting and attacking. I’ve always said that I rather talk with someone who thinks differently than me than a person who thinks just as I do. But the key is “talk” — a dialogue, a discussion — not rants, slams and verbally abuse.
March 5, 2018 at 3:31 pm #236088
- Make drugs and murder legal
- Arm everyone from age six on with any choice of guns they wish as an American right
- Death penalty for parking violations
Problems solved. Party.
March 7, 2018 at 11:58 am #236200
I agree with being fed up with corporations, companies, actors, news, kids shows, etc… politicizing everything. It’s ridiculous for REI to think they can not sell some of the best products of their category in the industry and people will think they’re being heroic. There is no connection between my camelback and NRA support whatsoever. It’s not even a gun issue, it’s a common sense issue. Try buying groceries or clothes or cars from a company that isn’t owned by a bigger company that may support something you don’t. I guarantee you’d be worn out and still a hypocrite.
May 11, 2018 at 11:24 pm #240030
I can live without REI and Dicks too. It is amazingly bad business to alienate large blocks of customers, but we see it all the time nowadays.
May 12, 2018 at 11:54 am #240032
I come to this forum to read and learn about MOUNTAIN BIKING. Not politics or fun control, take your whining and bitching elsewhere, Facebook perhaps. NOBODY really cares what your opinion is.
September 17, 2018 at 1:55 pm #247019
So this thread is a little political. That’s OK, at least here at Singletracks, because once again, responses and posts here civilized, polite, and clear to understand. This is such a far cry from the norm these days from the mess found on <<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>insert any name></span> social media site. I’ve probably said it before, but I believe that this due to the mountain bikers good/smart/positive/unbiased/reasonable/etc. (pick as many apply) attitude.
May 12, 2018 at 2:45 pm #240042
So YOUR opinion is more important than anyone else’s.
Thank you for your opinion.
May 14, 2018 at 7:49 am #240086
Soooo…. stopped in at an REI out of curiosity. Seems the products mentioned in the article that started this thread are still fully stocked on their shelves. So maybe the reality of providing the consumer what they want in order to make money (which is why they’re in business to begin with) took precedence.
September 14, 2018 at 10:51 am #246848
I love REI and shop there as much as possible and I’m going this weekend. Keep in mind, they are a co-op and when they announced this policy, they were responding to their members raising concerns via a petition that got a lot of signatures.
Regarding the argument that companies or people in certain industries (actors, musicians, artists, etc.) should “stay out of politics,” I have to say I’ve never understood this for two reasons…first, anyone affected by politics (ie, everyone) should be allowed to speak their minds about politics in a country with freedom of speech as one of its defining principles without being told they don’t have a right to speak. Second, I’ve noticed that rule seems to only be applied by people to those who aren’t saying what that person wants to hear.
September 14, 2018 at 11:21 am #246862
Here is an idea. No one talk about politics. Politics is a matter of believing one set of lies over the other. Any time spent discussing politics is wasted time that could be spent connecting with real people. I have my opinion on how the world should be but no one cares and no one should care.
I am so tired of the religious zeal that is being applied to politics. Some people are so loud (figuratively) that it is easy to believe everyone feels as strongly about everything. I just don’t think that is reality. I think normal people compartmentalize their political beliefs from the rest of their life and just live life.
September 14, 2018 at 1:57 pm #246895
I can see saying lets not talk politics on a site dedicated to non political things, unless of course it directly affects that thing, but to say we just shouldn’t because it is all lies, is way down the rabbit hole.
Facts are facts, and lies are lies and the people that can’t tell the difference or just don’t care are the problem.
Because people with differing political views, that can tell facts from lies, can still have civilized discussions.
September 14, 2018 at 2:05 pm #246896
I enjoy having conversations with people with whom I disagree. When it’s a real conversation, you can learn a lot about other people and their different perspectives, which helps build connection and community.
I don’t think the problem is politics, but rather people who can’t seem to have a civilized conversation and instead resort to insults and attacks.
I didn’t start the thread, I just responded to it. So, I’ll apologize for reviving an old thread…I didn’t realize it was so old until I’d posted my first reply. However, I won’t apologize for having an opinion and expressing it.
September 14, 2018 at 2:18 pm #246899
Wait. Saying politics is all lies is “way down the rabbit hole” but saying people who just don’t care are the problem is…?
Edit: If I came off as uncivilized, I apologize. I do not mean to imply having a political ideology makes a person a liar but rather the process of politicking is full of empty promises, weak premises and, yes, outright lies. I find that when people are talking politics they are rarely debating ideological positions but rather are an extension of the politics du jour.
September 14, 2018 at 2:46 pm #246904
I do not think you came off uncivilized, and I understand your frustration with both sides. And your calling it politics du jour, I find, unfortunately, quite accurate for many people. I often find that even people whose views I agree with, have no real idea why they have them, and so are unwilling to entertain any facts that might weaken their position.
September 17, 2018 at 8:38 am #247002
I wish businesses would steer clear of politics. Mountain bikers have some issues that are political in nature – access to trails in wilderness study areas is one that could be debated. Gun control is not such an issue.
September 17, 2018 at 8:50 pm #247024
REI is awesome (2 kids in scouts), Dicks is not.
Can’t all just go for a ride?
September 18, 2018 at 10:08 am #247072
If you haven’t read Jeff’s article please do. The link (to IMBA) provided makes it very simple to have our message heard. IMHO, this is the only politics appropriate for this venue. Let’s stay united as MTB’ers and focused on our cause.
- What was your first mountain bike?
- 1 month ago
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- 3 months, 2 weeks ago
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- 3 weeks, 3 days ago
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