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I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are on his case and him being stripped of his 7 Tour de France wins. I mean he was already proven innocent once can they not just give the guy a break.
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Did the UCI actually strip the titles? I haven’t checked since the USADA made their announcement last night.
I don’t know/care if he doped or not, but I feel the USADA didn’t properly handle this at all.
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Actually it’s only the USADA, UCI has taken no action yet.
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He can’t win the case. He will be dragged through the mud with testimony after testimony….It’s just damage control.. I love Lance and believe he is a super human man-beast that worked harder than anyone via training to win those titles even if he did dope I still think he just flat out worked harder than anyone. EVER…..However, an innocent man would fight this to his grave.
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I agree with you Spartan he has worked extremely hard for his accomplishments. And I still have respect for him. His titles have been stripped.
If you have not already you should read Lance Armstrong’s statement, i agree with what he says and they just need to leave him alone. You can read it on his website. -
This is B*ll S*it!!!!!! Lance won 7 TDF! Took two tears off, came back and took 3rd in the worlds most demanding event. He was drug tested hundreds of times before, during and after the the races. To raise the issue years (5-6) after to take away his titles is crap. They couldn’t take the titles away by beating him on the bike. I’m supprised they didn’t go after him for being too light after he had a testile removed. He wasn’t lighter because no one in France has a pair anyway. Why don’t we take away all of Tomach’s wins because his son is fast in Motocross, must have cheated to have a fast kid. Makes as much since as the Lance issue. Other cyclists were pulled for the race because they tested positive and couldn’t beat Armstrong. Ahhhhhhhhh!!! I feel better having vented but I still hate it. 😈 Later,
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"maddslacker" wrote
Actually it’s only the USADA, UCI has taken no action yet.
Right.
So what’s that mean? He can’t compete for the US in international events?
@Spartan
Agreed. If he fought this one, another one would spring up. Granted, if they had damning evidence and Lance knew about it, I’d probably stop fighting also. I guess we won’t know until the USADA releases what information they have.
@fat_billy
No kidding. If he doped, he beat other dopers. If he didn’t dope, he still beat other dopers. -
As fat billy (for president) said, hundreds of tests and never a positive.
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I also believe in Chuck Norris even though he died his beard for Expendables 2. 😄 Later,
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Oh yeah, Lance took second place in a 36 mile MTB race in Aspen today. The teenager that beat him will test clean I’m sure. Lance’s foundation has taken in record donations since all this crap so I guess he is still winning. Go out and buy some Nike products since they didn’t drop his sponsorship. Go Lance! 😄 Later,
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They ALL dope. So what is the advantage? To do this after so much time is crap but Im sure they have some good evidence for him to back off. This guy is so tough he should have been a mountain biker all along!
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So Jan Ullrich should get his title back?
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"fat_billy" wrote
Oh yeah, Lance took second place in a 36 mile MTB race in Aspen today. The teenager that beat him will test clean I’m sure. Lance’s foundation has taken in record donations since all this crap so I guess he is still winning. Go out and buy some Nike products since they didn’t drop his sponsorship. Go Lance! 😄 Later,
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lance is an outstanding rider and he won those tours hands down. it is to bad that our government, the french, and the the riders who were so jealous of his wins can cause so much grief. i fully understand the reason he has given up the fight and fully support him.
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"taylor757" wrote
lance is an outstanding rider and he won those tours hands down. it is to bad that our government, the french, and the the riders who were so jealous of his wins can cause so much grief. i fully understand the reason he has given up the fight and fully support him.
I’d love to think he did it all clean, but the realist in me says no way jose. I do hope we actually hear the testimony from all of his ex team mates that were involved in the investigation.
But honestly, at the end of the day, I don’t really care. I’m going to keep riding my bike and loving it!
Something to think about, from RedKitePrayer: http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/08/endgame/
Once the procedure this announcement sets in motion has run its full course, here’s what the Tour de France results will look like:1999: 1. Alex Zulle 2. Fernando Escartin 3. Laurent Dufaux
2000: 1. Jan Ullrich 2. Joseba Beloki 3. Christophe Moreau
2001: 1. Jan Ullrich 2. Joseba Beloki 3. Andrei Kivilev
2002: 1. Joseba Beloki 2. Raimondas Rumsas 3. Santiago Botero
2003: 1. Jan Ullrich 2. Alexandre Vinokourov 3. Tyler Hamilton
2004: 1. Andreas Klöden 2. Ivan Basso 3. Jan Ullrich
2005: 1. Ivan Basso 2. Francisco Mancebo 3. Alexandre VinokourovTake a moment to consider the names that were elevated in Armstrong’s absence. With the exception of Andrei Kivilev, during their careers each of those riders tested positive for doping, confessed to doping in the Festina scandal or were strongly implicated in Operacion Puerto. Be not confused: This is not a fix for one simple reason: It does nothing to solve the doping occurring today.
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Interesting article at Wired.com:
http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/08/l … legations/
The takeaways:
1) It would not have been impossible to pass numerous drug tests due to various limits to the testing technology. The article almost makes it sound easy to beat the tests but I wouldn’t go that far.
2) "Non-analytical positive" judgements are actually fairly common at USADA. I didn’t realize this but Lance isn’t the first to be hit with this type of judgement; previously Olympic sprinter Marion Jones was stripped of her medals for a non-analytical positive. The process seems totally unfair but surprisingly, nothing has been done to limit USADA power over the years (Jones’ case was finalized back in 2007).
I read something recently that implied performance-enhancing drugs added maybe 1-2% to performance which, at the higher levels of competitions, is a big difference. Put another way, assuming Lance DID dope, he was still responsible for 98% of his performance–clearly he’s an amazing athlete. The only question that remains is whether he’s a good and honest person. 😀
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Haven’t read all the posts here but an interesting bit of info I heard on Kiro Radio. For all of Lance’s tour wins…the second place finisher has been accused or busted fordopping as well. Sounds like it was a equal playing field. Go Lance!
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No titles stripped, only the UCI can do that. In fact, UCI has asked the USADA for evidence/proof but have received nothing yet. Unless that happens, and the UCI agrees that he doped, the record book will stand as is. Jan Ulrich already said he wouldn’t accept 1st place because Lance was the better rider and deserves to hold that spot. Several of Lance’s teammates who are rumored to be ready to rat him out apparently had their doping suspensions shortened if they agreed to testify against him. And all this done w/taxpayers money at the direction of USADA CEO Travis Tygart 3yrs after Lance retired, 7yrs after he won the last TDF, and after a US Federal probe found him not guilty of doping. I don’t know if he doped or not, but what is the point of going after him now? What is the point of all those drug tests if negative results don’t matter? Not sure what the objective here is other than for Travis to try and make a name for himself and increase funding for his "pseudo-government" agency. Shouldn’t they focus their efforts on current athletes? Who’s next – maybe Greg LeMond (1986) ?? What is the point of even keeping sports records if they can be changed many years later based on dubious reasons…
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"jkovaly" wrote
No titles stripped, only the UCI can do that. In fact, UCI has asked the USADA for evidence/proof but have received nothing yet. Unless that happens, and the UCI agrees that he doped, the record book will stand as is. Jan Ulrich already said he wouldn’t accept 1st place because Lance was the better rider and deserves to hold that spot. Several of Lance’s teammates who are rumored to be ready to rat him out apparently had their doping suspensions shortened if they agreed to testify against him. And all this done w/taxpayers money at the direction of USADA CEO Travis Tygart 3yrs after Lance retired, 7yrs after he won the last TDF, and after a US Federal probe found him not guilty of doping. I don’t know if he doped or not, but what is the point of going after him now? What is the point of all those drug tests if negative results don’t matter? Not sure what the objective here is other than for Travis to try and make a name for himself and increase funding for his "pseudo-government" agency. Shouldn’t they focus their efforts on current athletes? Who’s next – maybe Greg LeMond (1986) ?? What is the point of even keeping sports records if they can be changed many years later based on dubious reasons…
Supposedly: he DID test positive at the tour of switzerland or something like that, maybe the positive came out afer the race was over, I’m not sure on all the details. But he then "donated" about $100k to the UCI for a blood testing machine. I think everyone can see a problem with an athlete giving money to the governing body of their sport.
He also tested positive for cortisone and testosterone I think it was, but got a post-dated doctor’s note for it and they (the UCI) let it fly. That may have been the same positive from Switzerland, I’m not sure.
The federal probe was looking not at if he was doping, but instead at if he used Federal money to run the program.
The UCI will likely strip him of his titles. Because USADA supposedly has evidence of their corruption, taking bribes, and covering up positive tests, and they don’t want that info coming out.
Armstrong saying he’s done fighting is BS. If he was innocent he’d fight it, he has the funds. But, if he just quits now and cries witch hunt, he still looks like a good guy.
I’ve read somewhere, speaking of how this all went down, something along the lines of “yeah, it was a witch hunt. But in this case, there really was a witch.”
But regardless, the Lance fans will always back him no matter what. There could be video of him getting a transfusion and they’d still stand by him. There’s not even any point in arguing it.
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My question is why didn’t any of these committees discover or did anything since year one? I think if they would strip him off his title, it should only be the ones they can prove.
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He beat a bunch of other people that were doping, so either it was an even playing field, or hes just superman. regardless, Livestrong is great, saying hes been stripped still wont take his name out of the conversation, just like taking joe paternos wins, he will always be brought up in the conversation. He’s a stud, and he hangs out with Matthew McConaughey, and I suspect smokes a little of Matts stash in front of the airstream camper in a folding chair from time to time, so hes okay with me.
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[i:21hef2pb]Armstrong saying he’s done fighting is BS. If he was innocent he’d fight it, he has the funds. But, if he just quits now and cries witch hunt, he still looks like a good guy[/i:21hef2pb]
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If you were innocent, but the agency trying to prove you guilty had unlimited funds and a group of rats lined up who had been "enticed" to testify against you, knowing you would be dragged through the mud for at least the next year, spending your time going through hundreds of hours of hearings and depositions knowing that your opponent had a 99% win rate in these arbitrations, would you REALLY keep fighting? I know I wouldn’t, it’s called a stacked deck.
Back to my original point though, what is the objective? Why go after him now? I also agree with the comment re Joe Paterno, I am very opposed to all this trying to re-write sports history and erase records and accomplishments many years after the events are over. I would feel better if they just added a footnote noting the controversy, otherwise what is the point of even keeping records. I remember something about governments using similar methods to maintain their control over the population in George Orwell’s 1984.
I am sure there is more to come however since Johan Bruyneel has agreed to arbitration. As for me, my new strategy is to stop paying attention to these races as apparently the results don’t mean anything since they can be "erased" at any point in the future, and just go out and ride my bike 😉
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"jkovaly" wrote
As for me, my new strategy is to stop paying attention to these races as apparently the results don’t mean anything since they can be "erased" at any point in the future, and just go out and ride my bike 😉
I don’t think I’ve ever watched a single stage of the tour de france, or any other road bike race for that matter… heck I didn’t even watch the olympic MTB race. I’d ALWAYS rather be riding my bike instead of sitting in front of the TV.
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I have to agree with jkovaly. It is a stacked deck. That is my biggest complaint about this entire thing. I don’t care if Lance doped or not, the way he was "convicted" is just wrong. The USADA should have said he needs to fight the charges, admit to doping, or not fight and plead the fifth. You can’t say "I will no longer fight the charges but I’m innocent" and then have the "courts" scream GUILTY! without actually having a trial. Either publish what they have and then give the verdict or withhold the ruling until the stuff is used in another trial, (if the evidence can’t be released because it would conflict with another ‘case.’) Had it been handled differently, I think a lot more people would have actually cared.
Regarding the funds: Even if he does have the funds and is innocent, I can’t blame the guy for not spending his money and wasting his time fighting the charges. According to friends, he’s spent 5 million already. I can think of plenty of things I’d rather spend 5 million on. Again, that’d because it’s a stacked deck though. Had Lance has a shot of clearing his name (assuming he was innocent) I think he would have continued to fight the charges. Granted, that is one very large assumption.
And in the races where the top three to five finishers doped, does it even matter?
@Greg
You should watch the MTB race, it’s a pretty good one. I only watched the first and last lap though. -
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great article dgaddis, thx for the link. looks like that books going on my wishlist.
i’ve suspected for a long time lance was doping. about a year ago there was a lengthy article in runnersworld reguarding the underworld use of EPO. They went into detail about how for the most part, the drug testing was a joke. runners drug intake could easily be monitored and regulated so that they’d be clean when it came time to test. the most surprising thing to me though was how normal it was for runners to use it. just about everyone did it. if it could be so pervasive in the running community it didn’t seem like too far of a stretch for it to be in the biking community also.
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Just read this morning that Nike is dropping Lance Armstrong’s contract:
Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him. Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in any manner," the statement on Nike’s website reads. "Nike plans to continue support of the Livestrong initiatives created to unite, inspire and empower people affected by cancer.He also announced that he’d be stepping down from his foundation. Love him or hate him, it’s still a sad day for the sport of cycling.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/17/la … g-charity/
So wait, does this mean Dave Wiens actually won Leadville 7 times if they strip Lance of his win? Or that Wiens beat Lance the first time Lance rode Leadville despite the fact that Lance was performance enhanced? Wiens is a beast!
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I expected that contract to come to end back in August – I’m almost surprised it took this long. In marketing/ advertising, a social stigma is very, very important, and the man has lost a lot of credibility, whether he truly was doping or not.
Personally, he lost any and all credibility with me when he had an affair with Sheryl Crow and left his wife and kids. Screw him – athlete or not, he’s a bad [i:1ndm4cse]person[/i:1ndm4cse].
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ll step off my judgmental soap box. 😀
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"Fitch" wrote
Personally, he lost any and all credibility with me when he had an affair with Sheryl Crow and left his wife and kids. Screw him – athlete or not, he’s a bad [i:1ornshgg]person[/i:1ornshgg].
Yeah, I’ve always thought the same thing. His personal life was never really a model to follow…
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The fact that he’s stepping down from live strong is wild to me!
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"mtbgreg1" wrote
The fact that he’s stepping down from live strong is wild to me!
If he actually cares about Livestrong, stepping down is his only option. At this point, him being involved can only hurt the organization.
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"dgaddis" wrote
[quote="mtbgreg1":1sl2g7e3]The fact that he’s stepping down from live strong is wild to me!
If he actually cares about Livestrong, stepping down is his only option. At this point, him being involved can only hurt the organization.[/quote:1sl2g7e3]
Agreed. To me, it just really seems to be real confirmation
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Trek drops him like he’s on fire: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/trek-br … -armstrong
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"mtbgreg1" wrote
Trek drops him like he’s on fire: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/trek-br … -armstrong
Giro, 24 Hour Fitness, and Honey Stinger too (I thought he was an owner there?). As of now Oakley is still hanging in there but that may change…
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