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i’ve had 2 broken spokes and atleast 8 flats since ive had my bike..its a felt q520 and i got it in march..seems like i put more money in tubes and maintenance than anything…ive had it at the bike shop the first time the spoke broke at the hub..he said that maybe a stick got in there. now i have another broken spoke at the hub….what causes this, too much tension or not enough? anld the flats were because of pinch flats so ive increased pressure…still get flats if i happen to hit a rock the wrong way. ive replaced the front tire because it was too wide for the rear so i have a new front tire and a stock rear tire..it sucks no grip in the rear. what’s a good tire for the rear that’s a harder compound? also are you more likely to get a flat if the rear wheel is not true..i looked down to find i had a broken spoke any advice would be helpful
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Broken spokes are usually a result of damage or just a poorly made wheel in the first place. The pinch flats are probably more an issue of poor technique; try going tubeless.
Spoke damage can often come from dropping your chain off the back of the cassette. It will slightly gouge the spokes and weaken them causing them to break early. Sticks and rocks can also cause damage.
If the tensions were not brought up evenly and properly when the wheel was originally built, there is going to be a lot of extra stress on certain spokes causing breakage down the road. Until the spoke tensions are evened out correctly, you’ll never keep the wheel trued and you’ll probably eventually end up breaking more spokes. Pluck the spokes one by one like a guitar string and listen to the tones. Spokes on the same side of the wheel should sound pretty close in tone.
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"GoldenGoose" wrote
Broken spokes are usually a result of damage or just a poorly made wheel in the first place. The pinch flats are probably more an issue of poor technique; try going tubeless.
Spoke damage can often come from dropping your chain off the back of the cassette. It will slightly gouge the spokes and weaken them causing them to break early. Sticks and rocks can also cause damage.
If the tensions were not brought up evenly and properly when the wheel was originally built, there is going to be a lot of extra stress on certain spokes causing breakage down the road. Until the spoke tensions are evened out correctly, you’ll never keep the wheel trued and you’ll probably eventually end up breaking more spokes. Pluck the spokes one by one like a guitar string and listen to the tones. Spokes on the same side of the wheel should sound pretty close in tone.
^^what he said.
Are the spokes breaking on the rear hub, on the drive side? If so, GoldenGoose is likely right on. At some point the chain fell between the gears and wheel, and cut into the spokes. If that happens, you need to adjust the limit screws of the derailleur so it wont happen again. And, go ahead and have all the spokes on that side with elbows out (meaning they’re on the outside of the flange) replaced.
And yes, to reduce pinch flats you either have to run more higher air pressure, or go tubeless. Go tubeless, it’s cheaper and better.
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And yes, to reduce pinch flats you either have to run more higher air pressure, or go tubeless. Go tubeless, it’s cheaper and better.
True, however, tubeless does not solve everything as so many assume, but I would like to add to this…..
You can also just fly with two ply tires (DH/FR wire bead tires) and run low tire pressures such as 28 PSI to 38 PSI without worries of pinch flats. You can also fly with thicker DH/FR tubes as well to help, especially with clydesdale riders. Tubeless tires are not the total answer, as they may be a bit cheaper, but they are messy and a real pain at times. Maxxis Ardents are solid tires with exceptional grip in all terrains, weigh less, and roll much faster than the famous Nevegals. They are dual ply wire bead tires and will take a serious beating (sidewalls as well) through trails, root and rock gardens (gnarly as well), DH, aggressive climbs, and urban shredding. Never had any pinch flats on those Ardents, though had a couple over the years on the Nevegals.
To the OP…
Cheap spokes break and pop, especially on poorly built wheels. However, this happens to the best as well. The highly coveted Mavic Deemax have had issues with breaking/popping spokes quite a bit (many complaints with this scenario), and they are a near $2,000 wheel-set. To me, it sounds like your wheels are just not strong enough for you or your riding discipline. Get more beefy wheels, preferably with thicker diameter spokes with at least no less than 32, but 36 or better is better.
Good luck and have a blast riding…. 😄
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"BCP1" wrote
[quote="dgaddis":2m3l5dtl]And yes, to reduce pinch flats you either have to run more higher air pressure, or go tubeless. Go tubeless, it’s cheaper and better.
True, but would like to add to this…..
You can also just fly with two ply tires (DH/FR wire bead tires) and run low tire pressures such as 28 PSI to 38 PSI without worries of pinch flats. You can also fly with thicker DH/FR tubes as well to help, especially with clydesdale riders. Tubeless tires are not the total answer, as they may be a bit cheaper, but they are messy and a real pain at times. Maxxis Ardents are solid tires with exceptional grip in all terrains, weigh less, and roll much faster than the famous Nevegals. They are dual ply wire bead tires and will take a serious beating (sidewalls as well) through trails, root and rock gardens (gnarly as well), DH, aggressive climbs, and urban shredding. Never had any pinch flats on those Ardents, though had a couple over the years on the Nevegals.
To the OP…
Cheap spokes break and pop, especially on poorly built wheels. However, this happens to the best as well. The highly coveted Mavic Deemax have had issues with breaking/popping spokes quite a bit (many complaints with this scenario), and they are a near $2,000 wheel-set. To me, it sounds like your wheels are just not strong enough for you or your riding discipline. Get more beefy wheels, preferably with thicker diameter spokes with at least no less than 32, but 36 or better is better.
Good luck and have a blast riding…. 😄[/quote:2m3l5dtl]
DH tires and tubes are a great option if you want stupid heavy rolling stock. He’s riding a hardtail, on XC trails I imagine, he doesn’t need a DH setup. And 28psi-38psi isn’t low tire pressure. Lighter tires set up tubeless ride better for most people, if you’re not doing DH/FR type stuff. They roll faster, smoother, and grip better.
Spokes aren’t breaking ‘because they aren’t strong enough’. Even cheap spokes are STRONG, they aren’t the weak link in a wheel. Spokes break for two reasons: damage (cuts, knicks, etc) and fatigue. Something else will fail before a spoke from too much force (the rim will collapse, crack the hub flange, or pull the spoke through the rim/crack the rim).
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i think the stock tire is just weak. i would like a harder compound so is 2 ply the hardest rating on mtb tires? and about the chain hitting the spokes is this from the chain coming off or by removing the rear wheel..how can a chain do so much damage? i’d like to not go the tubeless route …just be less of a hassle and i’ve got pretty quick at changing tubes. i want a durable tire for a good price..under 50 dollars..as for the spokes it seemed like they only tightened the spokes needed to straighten the wheel. should all spokes be tightened to true the wheel? or does this just have too much tension…kinda getting tired of my bike shop..some younger guys with little experience
Thanks for the feedback!!!
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"dgaddis" wrote
DH tires and tubes are a great option if you want stupid heavy rolling stock. He’s riding a hardtail, on XC trails I imagine, he doesn’t need a DH setup. And 28psi-38psi isn’t low tire pressure. Lighter tires set up tubeless ride better for most people, if you’re not doing DH/FR type stuff. They roll faster, smoother, and grip better.
Not going to debate this here or anywhere else. 😉
"dgaddis" wroteSpokes aren’t breaking ‘because they aren’t strong enough’. Even cheap spokes are STRONG, they aren’t the weak link in a wheel. Spokes break for two reasons: damage (cuts, knicks, etc) and fatigue. Something else will fail before a spoke from too much force (the rim will collapse, crack the hub flange, or pull the spoke through the rim/crack the rim).
Hate to break it to you man, but cheaper spokes DO break/snap, twist, and warp no matter what norm reasons as you mentioned above. Nerveless, from your posting above, you seem to do little real aggressive riding, a perfected rider, or you are running top line components. Even then, top line components can break as well. However, better & thicker diameter spokes are tougher and last much longer through very aggressive riding…."no matter what the discipline riding you are doing." Been around for a long time riding, shredding, and freeriding and have built bikes from the ground up since I was a kid, so my advise is solid as most here. Thanks ‘dgaddis’ for your input.
OP…
Good luck and I wish you the best in your choice with what to fly with and only wish you the best. 😃
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can i keep the stock wheel and upgrade to larger diameter spokes?
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"lovemountainbiking12" wrote
can i keep the stock wheel and upgrade to larger diameter spokes?
Which spokes are breaking, exactly? Which wheel, which side of the wheel?
You need a good wheel builder to re tension the wheel. Then it’ll be rock solid.
Your bike already has 2mm diameter steel spokes, that’s plenty big. In fact, the only people who use larger spokes are touring and tandem bikes, that carry big weight, and those spokes are hard to find. Most nice wheels use thinner spokes (2mm on the ends and 1.8 or 1.7 in the middle).
The problem is either a poorly built wheel (meaning the tension is uneven) or the spokes have been damaged. The problem is not weak spokes.
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seemed like all of them werent tight after they trued it and i know it does no good to tighten every spoke that is loose or it wont be straight so they shoulda tightened all of them making sure the wheel was true…?
"dgaddis" wroteWhich spokes are breaking, exactly? Which wheel, which side of the whee
I’m 6’2” 240 pounds its happening to the rear wheel on the cassette side
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"lovemountainbiking12" wrote
[quote="dgaddis":19shmpi8]Which spokes are breaking, exactly? Which wheel, which side of the whee
I’m 6’2” 240 pounds its happening to the rear wheel on the cassette side[/quote:19shmpi8]
$50 bucks says you’ve dropped your chain off the inside of the cassette at some point and gouged the spokes. The location of the broken spokes is a dead giveaway. They are weakened when this happens and will eventually break unless replaced.
Take it back to the shop and ask for someone who builds wheels. If they don’t have someone who builds wheels, you may want to try elsewhere. Its not a prerequisite to have a person who builds wheels to fix your exisiting wheel. Wheel builders just do a better job because they understand all the forces at play to make a good, reliable wheel.
Get them to remove the gouged spokes and replace them with spokes of the exact same length and retension the entire rear wheel appropriately. Like I said before, plucking spokes on the same side of the wheel should result in almost the same tone out of each spoke. Higher tones mean that spoke is tighter than the rest and lower tones mean that spoke is looser. If ALL the spokes on a given side of a wheel are not evenly tensioned, the wheel will fail early and go out of true easily no matter how straight and true it currently looks.
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Why does dropping a chain cause broken spokes? Because spokes are made from hard, brittle metal. Even the slightest score on them will cause a weak spot that will propogate thru the spoke. Kind of the same idea behind cutting glass. That is, adding a slight score to the material makes it prone to breakage. That’s why most bikes (when they are new, at least) have a plastic guard between the cassette and the spokes.
I sure hope that people aren’t trueing your wheels by simply tightening spokes. If one side is tightened then the other side likely needs to be loosened up. In any case, spokes need to have consistent tension all the way around. Like somebody else already said, have somebody who knows how to build wheels take a look at them. Or, if you are determined to learn how on your own, get a maintenance handbook and learn about spoke tensioning. For typical riders on a reasonable quality bike the only reason spokes should break is they are damaged or not tightened correctly.
Pinch flats mean more air required. Pretty simple on that one.
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i have a plastic guard around the cassette and i don’t see any spokes that have gouges i just think that the spokes didn’t have the same tension all the way around
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Just wanted to say thanks to all those who posted in here – I had a spoke question and it was clearly answered within this thread. As usual, Singletracks.com to the rescue! 😎
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"lovemountainbiking12" wrote
i have a plastic guard around the cassette and i don’t see any spokes that have gouges i just think that the spokes didn’t have the same tension all the way around
With all the information being passed around, I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. You have the plastic protector, I would say your chain probably never jumped over, in that case. Could be damage from hitting a rock. More likely, it is just poorly built. I would take it to a different shop and get a new opinion. A lot of times you can find a new wheel online for a really reasonable price. Also, Check out these tires [url:1og5yayc]http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1101178_-1_400238__400238[/url:1og5yayc] very reasonably priced, and made my Maxis. I’m 6’4" and 225. I’ve ridden these hard with 0 problems. They also have a 2.1 if the 2.3 is too big.
Hope that helps!
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Check out this thread regarding riding hard tail bike on rooty and rocky sections. It also covers info on having the spokes re-done on the back rim.
[url:3eyuge84]http://forums.singletracks.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=9620[/url:3eyuge84]
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I’ve always got off the seat over bumps but being even lighter might help …in my case think the tension was a little off but I’m gonna try being lighter and I found good skill vids on Imbike mag about pushing the bike through ruff stuff gonna try it once trails dry up
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Someone may have already mentioned this but….Try getting some tire liners for the flats. I’ve used them in my 29" and had NO flats at all. They are pretty cheap…http://www.pricepoint.com/Brand/Mr-Tuff … -Liner.axd ………… and they work like a champ. I guess you could go tubeless if you wanna mess with that…I have no experience in tubeless. As far as the broken spokes go…I cannot help you. My cheap bontrager wheels get broken spokes about every other ride. It’s just the way it is i think if you have cheap wheels. Paying $500 for a new wheel set is not an option. I’d buy some spokes and change them yourself. Just set the tension close to the others. I don’t think it matters that much. My took my rear tire to have it "trued" cause it was all outta wack. I paid the guy and took the tire home. It is basically the same as it was. Maybe that stuff is a science and maybe it is luck….and maybe it doesn’t matter anyway on cheap stuff….
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"kyle8181" wrote
As far as the broken spokes go…I cannot help you. My cheap bontrager wheels get broken spokes about every other ride. It’s just the way it is i think if you have cheap wheels. Paying $500 for a new wheel set is not an option. I’d buy some spokes and change them yourself. Just set the tension close to the others. I don’t think it matters that much. My took my rear tire to have it "trued" cause it was all outta wack. I paid the guy and took the tire home. It is basically the same as it was. Maybe that stuff is a science and maybe it is luck….and maybe it doesn’t matter anyway on cheap stuff….
Spoken tension absolutely matters, it’s critical to a reliable wheel! I’d be going nuts if I were breaking spokes every other ride!! You want the tension as high as possible, and as even as possible. By ‘even’, I mean all the spokes on each side of the wheel should be as close to the same tension as possible. On the rear wheel, the spokes on the driveside will have a higher tension than the non-driveside. The front wheel is opposite, with higher tension on the disc/non-driveside.
How high should the tension be? That’s dependent on the rim. Go too high and the rim cracks, and the nipple pulls through the rim. But if not high enough, the spokes will go slack, the nipples will loosen, and the wheel will go out of true, and the low-tension spokes will start breaking. If you want to work on your wheels yourself, investing in a tension meter is a really smart move.
Your wheels are breaking spokes because the tension isn’t even. Some spokes have too little tension, and they go slack, and that greatly shorts the life of the spoke. Spokes fail due to either damage (stick, rock, etc) or fatigue. Yours are failing due to fatigue.
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