08 Trance x2 or 08 Reign 2

Jsmith811-

Welcome to Singletracks!

Have you read my evaluation of the Giant Reign & Trance in a reply to Mtbiker51: "Ready To Move To The Next Level"?

Most of what I’d tell you about those two bikes is contained within that reply. Giant’s website has the Marzocchi 600 TST2 description wrong; it only has 120mm of non-adjustable travel, and is compression & rebound tunable. TST2 is the base-level system to the TST.
If the Reign2 does indeed have a 140mm travel fork, its the 600 ATA or ATA2, which is adjustable through 100-140mm, and also has the TST or TST2 system.
The ‘Zoki 600 is their entry-level trail fork, with the 55 and 600 series replacing their AM line.

But I will reiterate the last bit of my reply to Mtbiker51…. especially as you’re doing 85-90% XC riding with the odd small drop thrown in occasionally, and are concerned about weight.

Go try out the Gary Fisher Hi-Fi! Even the base-model Hi-Fi gives you greater value than the Reign2 or TranceX2 in components (with the exception being brakes). But once you go up to the Hi-Fi Plus, it pulls even in the brake department, and is far better in all other respects in terms of component level.

Both the Hi-Fi & Hi-Fi Plus have better forks & shocks than either Giant. The RockShox Recon 351 SoloAir is a more capable & tunable fork than the Marzocchi 600 ATA/TST or Fox F120R, as well as having a lockout (not that it’s really needed IMHO). The Fox F120RL is a bit more responsive than the Recon, but you don’t get that until you hit the Hi-Fi Deluxe.

And you stated that you’re more concerned about suspension than components. I hear you on that, but having a good suspension design which is saddled by sub-par or entry-level bits is counterproductive. In any case, the Hi-Fi suspension is no slouch either! It is plenty responsive in either power or braking modes, if a little less plush than the Giant Maestro or SantaCruz VPP. I feel that the Hi-Fi’s suspension design and performance is better than the non-ABP Trek system, Kona 4-bar rocker linkage, or Jamis swing link setup. And the Genesis2 geometry isn’t just marketing hype either.

Combine the Fisher’s effective suspension & geometry with an incredibly light yet strong frame, and you’ll be riding a bike that meets or exceeds the capabilities of bikes with more "active" suspension setups. It’s a rocket on the trail, and is very nimble without being twitchy in every trail situation within it’s performance envelope. It may not be able to handle a day at a lift-park, but the Hi-Fi gives every indication that it wants to. 😼

But if the Hi-Fi doesn’t catch your fancy, for your riding I’d suggest the TranceX2 over the Reign.

The Hi-Fi doesn’t put a rider in racer position, nor does it stick you in an upright gravity posture either. The cockpit stretches you out, but it doesn’t lay you flat. The riser-bar they come with does a good job of keeping a rider centered and in a way that lets the upper body move to keep the CG in the right spot; for climbing, descending, banking, etc.

The great thing about the Fisher is it doesn’t get twitchy at speed, and it doesn’t wallow about when slowly threading switchbacks either. It sucks you don’t have an LBS that sells Hi-Fi’s; I think you’d be pleased after testing one.

The Reign & other 6" travel bikes with VPP/DW-Link/Maestro don’t pedal like marshmallows; the designers have done a good job at that. The higher-end Reigns I’d believe have weights sub-30lb, but the Reign1 & 2 are at the 30+ mark due to their heavier components. Some 6" travel bikes do an excellent job at hiding their weight, and the Reign is one of them. The Nomad & IH 6-Point are others.

I’d say the TranceX2 would be a better bet however. Better suspension components than the Reign2, although the drivetrain is still a bit lacking. The TranceX2 would still be able to handle the occasional small drop & jump. I still hold that the Hi-Fi is a better bike than the Trance in all categories….

What other brands are available in your area?

The short answer is Trance X2.
For most applications 6 inches of travel is over kill. I just cut down to 5 inches and couldn’t be happier. I get more entertainment value out of 5 inches than 6. Most five inch travel bikes will willingly suck up 2 foot drops to flat and with a little technique 4 isn’t out the question. Some 5 inch travel bikes haven’t been informed there is a limit.
The forks to me are a wash. TST-5 or TST micro would be a big win for the ‘Zoke if available, but I agree with Bomb when he says that lock out isn’t really needed. And, if I remember correctly TST-2 is a choice between open and closed (locked out).
I do like the rear damper on the Reign over what is spec’d on the Trance. The ability turn off pedal damping on descents is wonderful.
I would also say the X.7 shift kit on the Reign is better. If the Trance was spec’d with XT then I would say it as matter of personal preference between SRAM and Shimano. I have had no luck with Shimano’s LX and Deore, but XT and SRAMs X.7 haven’t let me down.
Unless you are looking to customize down the road, then I would really look a the Trance X1, upgrading the rear shock, shift kit, hubs and stoppers will be worth it.

"You’ve taken your first step into a larger world." Trails that were all but inaccessible to the Fuel 70 will open up before you your eyes. Chances are, the 85-90% XC will change. The Reign is simply a different animal from the Fuel 70. The bike is really versatile as it sits and should keep you happy for quite a while. Upgrades from here will depend on where the bikes leads you as a rider.
If you follow the bike down the more progressive and aggressive lines it keeps telling you to take, then the top upgrade I would make is the a DHX 5.0 air. The versatility of the shock will be well worth the weight gain. If you get one used, it is really smart to send it back to Fox for a rebuild. Chances are, it’s well over due. Factor roughly $100 into what you pay for a used shock for the rebuild. Personally I would run that Float until I found a deal on the DHX 5.0 that made me weep.
If you are licking your chops to upgrade the fork, target the same 140mm of travel (you are mostly looking at crown-to-axle here, but for some forks that can be a bitch to find). I am sure the bike will gladly accept a up to a 160mm and preform well. However, you might quickly find that the Reign will out perform it’s durability with a beefy fork. Keeping the head tube angle where Giant spec’d it will help to reduce the problem. As far as suggestions by name, there are to many choices out there. Go for adjustable travel though, being able to steepen your head tube angle for a nasty climb and then slack it for a descent is priceless on an all-mountain bike. Do a lot of homework before you make a decision. The right fork will make it to your next frame.
There is nothing else I would upgrade on the bike until it either self-destructed or proved itself unserviceable. The new Hayes stoppers are still up in the air. If it were me, I would put them through the ringer and see what they had.

Let me know what Marzocchi 600 fork your Reign2 actually comes with. If it’s just the TST2 version, try to get your LBS to order or swap it out for a Marzocchi 55ATA. It’s an excellent fork and would match the Reign’s performance envelope very nicely.
Also, a Marzocchi Roco Air3PL shock would compliment the Reign’s rear suspension just as well as the 55ATA up front. From what I understand, the Roco Air shocks work well on high leverage-ratio suspension designs like the Giant Maestro.
It may be a sizable amount of coin, but the Reign could seriously benefit from upgraded suspension dampers. The SRAM X-7 derailleur & shifters are effective and durable; just upgrade them later to X-9’s. I like RaceFace cranks & BBs, but not so much external bearing BBs. I’ve ridden both external & internal RaceFace AM bottom-brackets, and prefer the ISIS SRX internal because it’s less exposed to the elements and has a narrower Q-factor…. and IMHO is a bit easier than the X-Type BB to set up as well.

Good luck with your new ride, and post us up some glamour shots when you can!

Just wondering how your getting on with the bike? Just trying to decide between the trace x 1 or the marin rift zone 😕

Welcome to Singletracks, Mike. 😎

I suggest trying to give each bike a test-ride before buying. The Marin is a very nice bike, and they’ve much improved their Whyte-Link suspension design in 2007.
The Rift Zone and TranceX1 are near identical analogues of each other (I compared Medium bikes); with the TranceX1 having a [i:1yvefbh8]slightly[/i:1yvefbh8] better suspension group. The Rift Zone has a [i:1yvefbh8]slightly[/i:1yvefbh8] better drivetrain & wheels, and is equipped with top-end Hayes Stoker Carbon brakes (TranceX1 has Stroker Ryde brakes).
The two bikes have nearly identical geometry; Rift Zone has slightly shorter chainstays & wheelbase (0.61" & 0.7"), the same HT-angle as TranceX1 (69.5 deg), a lot more slack seat-tube angle (71.5 vs. 73.5), and a slightly longer top-tube (0.5").
With them being so close, handling for both will definitely be neck-&-neck. However, with the Rift Zone having a slack ST angle, it’ll be more comfortable on the downhill side of things, while the TranceX1 will be more comfortable to climb with. Again, it’s a very close match.

But between the two the Marin edges the Trance out on suspension performance, which should be one of the main deciding factors when considering a new FS mountainbike. While the Giant Maestro is a very good setup, the Marins I tested in ’07 replied to pedalling with snap; they felt a lot lighter than they actually are, and they respond precisely to steering inputs & body-english when making tight/technical manuevers. Without being twitchy or excessively understeering. Marin’s suspension is also one of those that gives the feel of having more travel than what is truly available, and it inspires confidence when things get really rough.
Marin frames & linkages are extremely well-built & stiff without making a compromise with lots of extra material/weight. The magic is in the massively manipulated & hydroformed frame/swingarm, with the short, stout links and bearings giving up no flex or play to trail abuse.

The very neat thing about Marin’s full-suspension bikes is that they handle square-edged bumps and obstacles very well regardless of speed; ratcheting over them without getting hung-up.
The Marin suspension is licensed from a very popular manufacturer in the UK; Whyte Bikes. They even have a full-carbon version of the Rift Zone, called the Whyte E-120XT.
Some people don’t like the aesthetics of Marin/Whyte frame designs, but the ride they offer is awesome. But I think the looks have definitely improved since 2006.

I feel that the Marin Rift Zone is a prime candidate for a fork and shock upgrade; either a [color=red:1yvefbh8]DTSwiss XMC-130 Air[/color:1yvefbh8], or a [color=green:1yvefbh8]Magura Laurin[/color:1yvefbh8].
The first choice being the DTSwiss XMC for it’s super adjustable & sensitive 130mm travel DT-Air damper, QR Thru-axle, travel reduction, air/coil neg. spring, and strong composite construction/light weight.
The Magura Laurin is most likely the stiffest XC/Trail fork on the market, and Magura’s suspension technology has proven effective. While not quite as refined as the DTSwiss, it’s no slouch either. The Laurin has a lock-out feature and travel-adjust (100-85mm) as well.

For the rear shock, I’d hook it up with a Magura Hugin.
The Hugin has seperate high & low speed compression adjustments and a platform adjust, while other most other XC/Trail shocks only have overall compression and rebound adjustments. The Magura shock is also a low-volume/pressure air can design, very similar to the Curnutt Air shock, which makes the shock more responsive and not have to rely on a high-pressure negative air spring/reservoir. The low-volume design also decreases stress on shock hardware and mounting points.
The only reason why I’d think that a Magura Hugin shock wouldn’t be viable is the shock clearance available between the Marin’s swingarm & frame. The Hugin shock is a little fatter than most comparable dampers, but from what I’ve seen up close, not by much.

Anyways, good luck! And whatever you get, I’m sure you’ll enjoy the ride!

So which XC600 did your Reign come with, the ATA2 or TST2?

Regardless, the harshness you’re experiencing with the Marzocchi fork is typical of all new ‘Zoki forks, until the seals break-in. Also, a fork with too much preload will cause/exacerbate the harshness you describe.

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply – that has somewhat put my mind at ease over buying either bike. The Trance X I hadn’t considered until I came across one at a local bike shop, it appears much better in the flesh than it looks on Giants web site. Unfortunately the shop only had last years East Peak to compare against, which felt considerably heavier. They also had the whyte on display – nice bike, unfortunately that would be quite over budget. Considering my original limit of 1500 GBP, both of these bikes are in the 1700-1800 price bracket so would rather no have to spend cash on any upgrades. Will certainly speak to the dealer about a possible fork upgrade though.

I should have mentioned that it will be a UK spec – therefore anything that can handle mud and wet surfaces is a must. I will be moving from a hard tail (Giant XTC weighing around 29lbs) with Marzocchi MX pro ETA forks to a first full susser. Most of my riding is currently cross country trails, however it would be nice to have something that makes riding technical uphill trails a bit more manageable. I’ve been advised that both of these bikes would be suitable for doing small drops – although im slightly apprehensive on this as the Fox F120 shocks are rated for cross country only, according to the Fox website. Any thoughts on what I can get away with on these bikes?

I have a demo ride booked on a wolf ridge in two weeks – although I have almost ruled this out, it should at least give me a another stick to gauge the other bikes by.

Thanks for the advice. I certainly dont think I would be able to push either to the limits, that said, I dont want something that will fold up if I start attempting drop offs and a more agressive downhill singletrack.

Get on a some good singletrack runs – that should help bed the forks in 😀 Had heard the same thing about them when I brought mine, they did seem to get better over time, although havent had anything else to gauge them against.

It might help to define small drops. Small to me is when a drop is shorter than the rider. I only do small drops. I learned to do small drops on Manitou Black with 120 mm of travel. Further, I have seen small drops done on all ranges of air sprung Fox XC forks. However, there is more than just size that causes a drop to be abusive on equipment. The steepness of the transition, density of the landing point and texture of the landing area can all change what a fork can do. A three foot to flat drop on urban concrete can jar your soul. But, six feet to a nice steep tranny made of soft dirt is like landing in butter. Throw rocks and roots in the landing area and the rules adjust again. Still, I would say that as long as you’re keeping it below three feet and do not land in rock gardens, the Fox F120 will be fine.
Another thing you will want take into account is how often you will be doing drops and more aggressive downhill single track. Although I’ve never seen the phrase, aggressive downhill single track could easily define my riding. If you wanted to ride with someone like me three or four times a year, you shouldn’t have a problem with either of those bikes. If however, you want to make it a weekly thing, then durability really comes into question. The fork wouldn’t be the first of my worries, the linkage on the frame and the wheel set would.

Small is likely to be a couple of feet (at most) from elevation to flat on single track and perhaps the same sort of height on to gravel. Certainly this will only be every once in a while, although it may need to withstand a period of me hashing it up.

What is bothering me, is the definition of all mountain – some magazines put the 5" travel in to the “all mountainâ€

My first instinct was to explain how XC forks are different from long travel forks, and if you were a Downhill/Freerider trying to cross into the XC world, that might be the right move. The most important part of aggressive riding is confidence in your skills. Since you’re trying to grow into aggressive riding, that’s not there. The next thing that will save you is confidence in your equipment. Since you’re bright enough to do research on the subject, the more information you get, the more sketchy you will be on that fork. The simple fact is, that it’s not really cut out for high speed impacts. The problem that you get into, is that neither are those frames. It’s easy to cover for an over tasked fork with technique, unloading the fork in the rough stuff and landing rear wheel first on drops, etc. However, this puts extra abuse on the frame. Quite often, sticking a longer travel fork on a frame will void any warranty. I remember checking into the Trance X this fall and finding they would not support greater than a 120 mm fork on the frame. I checked into so many 5 inch travel frames, I could be mistaken. I still think the Trance X1/Rift Zone can take what you want to give it, but it might be smarter to consider a beefier rig.

edit: must use word processor to check for grammar errors before I post!