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It really depends on what you like, both in the saddle, after the ride, and on days when you want to give your legs a break. Also, the time of year makes a big difference. Summer in Moab/Fruita? No way, unless you can watch the weather and go when the forecast calls for mild temps. Fruita will tend to be cooler and you have the option of higher elevation riding, like Palisade Rim, which is close by. Spring in CB? Mudfest, forget it, especially this year since they got a lot of snow. CB in July? Heaven, if you can ignore the crowds. Nice ambience in and around town? CB is the place, always.
Jim, I met a bunch of Kiwis at the top of the Fruita 18 road many years ago — perhaps that was you. Anyway, like John, I’m in the Colorado Springs area and would be happy to go pedaling with you in the surrounding (Colorado) area. Not sure if I’m up for Moab in the summer — that could be really hot — but you never know, they do have cool periods.
Yeah, like those guys said, it depends on how you define “mountain bike”. When I was a kid in the early 70s I would take my Schwinn Typhoon and hit all the cross country ski trails around the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. The fenders, chain guard, etc., disintegrated from pounding over all the rocks and roots. What fun!
Good discussions on this topic in the following threads. Sorry about steering the discussion away from this website…
http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/imba-insurance-ending-899262.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/club-insurance-928811.html
Nope, all trails closed unless you have DOD identification or are with someone who does. Doesn’t seem likely it will be open in the near future. They won’t even let you use the New Santa Fe Trail anymore and can’t decide what will make that trail “secure”, much less the Falcon loop.
Depends on what you are looking for. If you are satisfied with a satellite view then Google Earth is the easiest way to create a 3D view.
Forestry Suppliers is a pretty popular vendor. http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/searc … xt=pulaski
Do you really need an axe blade? If you are just chopping at small stuff then consider a Rogue hoe. Very versatile and tough tools. http://www.roguehoe.com/trailbuilding/t … lding.html
"CraigCreekRider" wroteThoughts?
Having had the opportunity to design and lead the construction of many miles of trail over the last few years I think I can speak to this. It has been my experience that once you get more than two people involved in the design of a trail you quickly bog down in endless squabbling, ego contests, public battles, etc. I have heard other trail designers say the same thing in other trail forums. It just doesn’t work to try and build a trail by committee. And that is just the design phase, if you go out there on build day and start trying to do big design changes then all chaos breaks loose. The fact is, while lots of people think they know how a trail should be built, not a lot of them have the experience or the background to consider all the factors that have to be considered to create a fun, sustainable, trail that appeals to anybody other than themselves. So, until you have paid your dues by going to trail design school, apprenticing with experienced designers, and turning out for countless build days, STFU and follow the flag-line that the designer put down. Bottom line: if you want that kind of input then you have to get involved before build day. If you suspect the trail design won’t take into the account the needs of the local biking community then the time to make that known is during the design phase, not on the build day.
Don’t try to tell me that this discourages volunteerism. Most volunteers are just showing up because they think it sounds like fun, gives them a way to pay some "dues" for a trail area they like, or whatever. There aren’t that many that come out hoping to design features into a trail while they build it. I don’t worry about losing volunteers because they weren’t given free reign to do what they want when they got to the work area. If somebody actually sounds like they might have a knack for it then I will encourage them to get involved in future projects, but I’m not turning them loose that day. I’m sorry that some people get offended when they come to a trail build day, suggest a reroute, and get shutdown, but that simply is not the time to be talking about big changes to the design.
OK, now that I’ve gotten that off my chest, I will admit that when out building trail if there is a crew leader that I know well and trust to do good work, if they or someone in their group suggests a change to the design that I think can be made without causing total confusion I will say Go for it! I don’t pretend to have all the answers, nor do I claim to have completely thought out every linear foot of trail that I laid out. I don’t want to squash creativity, but I don’t want self-assured wannabes creating disasters, either.
But really, the best way to handle this situation is to do a wider review after the initial design is laid out. I like to get reps from the various user groups together and go over the design to help establish buy-in and to look for improvements. This can be time consuming and painful since you typically have people with little or no design background asking you why you don’t just go straight up the fall-line. You end up doing mini trail building seminars so that people understand why things were done the way they were done, and even then some people will never be convinced. In the end you get a better trail design and you have people who will come out on build day with enthusiasm rather than second guessing the design decisions and whining all day.
Such is life in any human endeavor that involves more than about three people. In any case, if you want to avoid diatribes like the one from Robb Sutton then you have to be prepared to burn up a lot of time selling the concept and letting others give their input before any tools touch the dirt.
Fantastic! Thanks for sharing your adventures! 😀
There are so many sources of good trail building info that it is kind of overwhelming. I’ve been working on some documentation lately and I have a bibliography that I posted below. My favorite sources of info, in order, are:
IMBA Trail Solutions
Natural Surface Trails by Design
Minnesota Trail Planning Guide
USFS Trail Construction and Maintenance NotebookThe video version of Trail Solutions can be found online at IMBA Trail Solutions videos.
It is well worth your time to poke around the American Trails website http://www.americantrails.org/
Resources
Appalachian Mountain Club. [i:71lnw2uz]AMC’s Complete Guide to Trail Building & Maintenance.[/i:71lnw2uz] Boston, MA: Appalachian Mountain Club, 2008. AMC Books.
Birkby, Robert C. [i:71lnw2uz]Lightly on the Land: The Student Conservation Association Trail-Building and Maintenance Manual.[/i:71lnw2uz] Seattle, WA: The Mountaineers, 2005. Mountaineers Books.
Hancock, Jan; Vander Hoek, Kim K. Jones; Bradshaw, Sunni; Coffman, James D.; Engelmann, Jeffrey. [i:71lnw2uz]Equestrian Design Guidebook for Trails, Trailheads, and Campgrounds.[/i:71lnw2uz] Missoula, MT: USDA Forest Service, Missoula Technology and Development Center, 2007. Equestrian Design Guidebook for Trails, Trailheads, and Campgrounds.
Hesselbarth, Woody, and Brian Vachowski. [i:71lnw2uz]Trail Construction and Maintenance Notebook.[/i:71lnw2uz] Missoula, MT: USDA Forest Service, Technology and Development Program, 2007. Trail Construction and Maintenance Notebook.
Parker, Troy Scott. [i:71lnw2uz]Natural Surface Trails by Design: Physical and Human Design Essentials of Sustainable, Enjoyable Trails.[/i:71lnw2uz] Boulder, CO: Natureshape, 2004. Natureshape LLC.
State of Minnesota, Department of Natural Resources. [i:71lnw2uz]Trail Planning, Design, and Development Guidelines.[/i:71lnw2uz] St. Paul, MN: Trails & Waterways Division, 2007. Minnesota Bookstore.
Webber, Peter, ed. [i:71lnw2uz]Trail Solutions: IMBA’s Guide to Building Sweet Singletrack.[/i:71lnw2uz] Boulder, CO: International Mountain Biking Association, 2004. IMBA Store.
Webber, Peter, ed. [i:71lnw2uz]Managing Mountain Biking: IMBA’s Guide to Providing Great Riding.[/i:71lnw2uz] Boulder, CO: International Mountain Biking Association, 2007. IMBA Store.
NPS Guide to Sustainable Mountain Trails.
Breckenridge Trail Standards and Guidelines.
Frederick County Design Standards and Planning Guidelines.
Humboldt County Regional Trails Master Plan (2010).
Massachusetts DCR Trails Guidelines and Best Practices Manual.
Monterey Bay Sanctuary Scenic Trail (MBSST) Network Final Master Plan.
Portland Trail Design Guidelines.
"CraigCreekRider" wroteThe biggest fear I see for us is that the USFS will decide it is easier and cheaper to close trails than re-hab them. That is exactly what they were going to do with the trail system we are working on.
Yup, "decommissioning" trails is one of the tactics that the USFS is using to get ahead on their maintenance backlog. I’m not totally against the concept. If a trail rarely gets used, implying that it is not interesting to many people, then it probably should go away. But, I bet that a small percentage of the total trails really deserve to be wiped out.
We have been trying to work with our local ranger district to set priorities to help guide our volunteer groups, but they really haven’t been all that willing to engage in the past. There seem to be a number of issues that keep them from doing more. For example, we have had huge forest fires road destroying floods in the last year which have caused huge issues. On top of that there seems to be a bit of apathy or perhaps burn-out that also seems to prevent them from wanting to do more to work with volunteer trail groups. Finally, it is rumored that the rec-planner for our district has stated that almost all of his salary comes from OHV taxes and thus the non-motorized folks are only allotted about 15 minutes of his time per year. Not sure how true that is, but the reality is OHV activity does eat up our local ranger district leaving them with little energy or funds to take care of the rest of us.
Each year we put together a plan describing the trail maintenance we plan to do and submit it to the forest service. They just about always agree to it and give us permission to work as FS volunteers (a necessary legal distinction when it comes to liability) and then we go out and hack at the dirt all summer. It only amounts to a few hundred man hours per year, but it is better than nothing.
I just heard that the USFS actually has a list of priorities for us to tackle in the next year and want to meet. That will be a first time that has happened in a long time, that is, the forest service getting in front and leading instead of us just doing our own thing. We will see how it goes.
I’m involved with a couple groups that struggle with the same thing. I can’t say that I’ve got it figured out yet, but I have come away with some observations that I think apply.
[list:wmffajzg]
[*:wmffajzg]You will rarely get more than a fraction of your membership/email-list/whatever to show up unless you pay them somehow. So you either have to find some way to compensate the volunteers (tangibly or spiritually) or you need a bigger list.[/*:wmffajzg]
[*:wmffajzg]Different people are motivated in different ways, so be prepared to offer different appeals. For example, have you noticed how many different flavors of Geico ads you see on the TV in the US? Marketing people know they have to use different pitches to appeal to different personalities. You have to do that too.[/*:wmffajzg]
[*:wmffajzg]Some people really like the social aspect. If you can finish the day with a BBQ, beer, small party, etc., that will pull in people. Take the time to do introductions and help people strike up conversations. Never underestimate the human need for group membership and feeling like they belong and are appreciated.[/*:wmffajzg]
[*:wmffajzg]Some people really like swag, even small trinkets will do. Get some giveaways to give out. You know, shirts, bottle openers, bells, discount coupons, gift cards, whatever. Maybe you can get a local pub to give your group a free round after a work day. Make it even more fun by rewarding people for biggest rocks, most tread completed, best plumber’s crack, whatever. Anything tangible that people will think of as a reward and/or fun.[/*:wmffajzg]
[*:wmffajzg]Some people really like to be recognized for their efforts. If somebody consistently turns out for every project take a moment to recognize them in front of the whole group at the start of the day. If you do a year-end banquet be sure to give credit to the people who came out more than average.[/*:wmffajzg]
[*:wmffajzg]Some people like to feel their efforts are worthwhile and contribute to the greater good. At the start of the day be sure to explain how their help is important. Do not forget to explicitly and individually thank every volunteer at the end of the day. Top that off by explicitly naming accomplishments like "Look at that awesome tread you guys just built!"[/*:wmffajzg]
[*:wmffajzg]Some people like to do something that is different or unique. Are you working in a currently closed area? Advertise that they will get to do something that nobody else can do. Maybe they can get a lift into an area that would otherwise only allow a hike, say on a ski lift, train, 4wd, etc. Anything that make the day special will catch people’s attention.[/*:wmffajzg]
[/list:u:wmffajzg]
I’m sure other people have even better ideas but hopefully this will get you thinking.Oh man, 12 pages of anti-bike fury. This definitely deserves a response.
It kills me that they use a video of a few bikers jumping the water bars on the crappy double-track portion of the Monarch Crest Trail above Marshal Pass to justify not allowing bikes further south. It has nothing to do with the character of the proposed new segment of trail! 😈
In case it matters to anybody, the "Colorado Mountain Bike Association" (COMBA) is effectively the Jefferson County Mountain Bike Association. Great group of people, but most of the money you send them stays in Jefferson county.
From what I hear most current smartphones have similar accuracy to entry level dedicated GPS units, so unless you are ready to spend some $s there isn’t much point in buying a dedicated GPS. I have a Samsung Galaxy S II smartphone, and I find that in open country (no trees or other obstructions) the accuracy is really good, like within a few feet. Once I get into the forest or canyons, however, it can be off by 60′ or I might get nothing at all.
Note that MyTracks and Orux both have settings that you can tweak for how often they sample the GPS. I usually use MyTracks with "Recording time interval" set to "smallest" and "Recording distance interval" set to "16 ft between recorded locations". That usually results in very good tracks.
My daughter’s boyfriend did a four week backpacking trip to the Alaska Brooks Range and outfitted it with REI gear (boots, tent, backpack, sleeping bag, etc.). I hate to admit it, but a couple years later he was short on cash so he returned all the gear to REI for a refund. 😏 Seriously? I thought that would be the end of his membership, but, no, he still shops there using his membership. Crazy!
"schwim" wroteAny remaining oils will attract dirt however and will help it stick, burning up your seals at an accelerated rate, so make sure you don’t leave any extra hanging around 😀
I have experienced that exact problem. I used to burn thru seals on my shocks till I quit lubing them so much. 😕 You may also want to make sure that whatever lube you use is compatible with your seals. I’m thinking chain lube probably is not.
Personally, I just try to keep them clean and don’t try to lube them at all anymore.There are a couple good ways to avoid this all-together. The first thing is to create a better approach to a sharp turn, like a switchback. A well designed trail will start getting twisty on the top (uphill) side of a switchback. That forces riders to begin slowing down before they get to the sharp turn and reduces the incidence of people grabbing the brakes and sliding into the turn. Secondly, on wider turns, it is ideal if they can be banked. That way people can rail thru them with minimal braking and maximum grins.
In any case, skidding is bad if there is much traffic. A rut and/or braking bumps start forming in the middle of the tread. Then people start going to the edges of the trail to avoid the mess in the middle and the trail widens. Eventually it is just a big pile of rubble and not near as fun to ride as the rest of the trail.
Anyway, like so many things, I think it all goes back to good initial design. Unfortunately, the majority of the trails we ride were never actually designed, they just happened, or the people who laid them out didn’t understand the impact of their user base.
This article is related http://303cycling.com/conservation-vs-recreation
"skibum" wrote"The trails themselves will be among the best in the state"
That’s a pretty big claim as NM has some pretty freakin’ awesome trails!
Just what I need . . . another reason to want to sneak away to Taos 😄
Just let me know when you are going. 😃
