Brand Name?

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    • #86910

      I just want to see how many of you think brands matter, is it worth it to go to your LBS and spend %50 +/- more on a bike or better to go to wally world?

      I personally havent had good experience with anything mongoose other than my BMX which is really old and a tank.

      i prefer my trek, it came with pretty decent components and gives me a good base to build upon. i havent put much money into it other than the Crank Bros Candy c’s clipless and the Avid BB7’s but with that my 3900 is holding up really well. i have some where around 2500 Mi on it (computer broke at 1950ish and i rode for a couple months without one) and altho it may not be the best thing on the trail it works for me.

      reason for asking is curiosity and that my little brother is wanting a MTB but my parents will be buying it and he doesnt have much $$$$ to work with.

    • #86911

      absolutly brand matters. I got back into MBing with a 1000$ bike, it is a good brand from a good bike shop. it had the basic components. It got me going last summer, but now that I am improving, i am buying top of the line components for it. This way I can save some money then buy stuff, not spend alot all at once which can be difficult. Mabey your parents can do the same. Get him a bike to get him going then upgrade the components. Or he may not even want to stay in the sport, ive seen that happen too.

    • #86912

      well i think the price range would be about $400 maybe $500, i hope thats what my parents are planning on spending, cuz they know thats what i spent.

      i agree with getting component upgrades when you can, i was just wondering if those new(to me) FS mongoose bikes with disc brakes that say "shimano equiped" are worth anything

      hes def hooked hes been riding for around 6 months offroad and stole my old diamondback he just needs to get his own. im 6’3" and hes about 5’7" so it barely fits him…

    • #86913

      Yes, it matters. Big time.

      Rule #1. Don’t buy a bike from big box store (Walmat, Target, KMart etc…)

      You are better off buying something used from someone you know, or from someone you know who knows someone….or from a total stranger off the internet.

      Rule #2. See rule #1.

      If I had $400-$600 I would be looking for used hardtail bike. Do you know anyone who rides? Ask him/her to help you find a used bike. Or find the bikes yourself, and ask your contact what he/she thinks of the bike you found.

      Rule#3. See rule #1.

    • #86914

      Just like with everything else in life, brand names play a significant role. Now, I’m not saying any brand is specifically better than any others, they all have pros, and cons. It comes down to quality, you get what you pay for. Now I say this because there are multiple bikes out there that are in the same price range, and are definitely comparable bikes. As well as cheaper bikes, you may save on the money, but you are guaranteed problems much sooner than if you had laid down a little extra. I remember my friends bike he had gotten from Toys R Us. What a mistake, the [i:3lagxhzw]first jump[/i:3lagxhzw] he broke the front suspension on it, and it wasn’t like he was hucking off a 3′ jump either, it was a trap from the beginning.

      We have a section here on singletracks that is dedicated to reviews. I highly suggest taking a look around before buying something that interests you or your brother in the future. Just food for thought.

    • #86915

      $400-$600 at a LBS will get you an introduction hardtail with intro componets, frame will be good but not light. Upgrade when thins break or he has some cash to put in it. This time of year the LBS might have some of last years models still and you may get a deal.

      As seenvic mentioned check around craigslist, LBS, want ads to see if there is a descent used bike. Check it out really good. Also go to their house to look at it. If it is hot, they will want to meet somewhere besides their house.

      I concur with rule number 1.

    • #86916

      Sorry for the long response, but this hits home for me cause my wife and I run our 55 year old family business. We care about our customers and struggle every day with big box pressures.

      Bike manufacturers, or any product manufacturer, makes products specifically for Wally World (and other big box)…cheap! It’s all about price, price, price, volume, volume, volume! So yes, brand is important, very important. But what’s more important, supporting your local businesses. Yeah, they’ll be more expensive, of course they will. But look what you get. First, you know you’re getting better quality. Plus, ask the guy in your LBS a question about your bike, "What do you think about…? or "What the best for…?" Your LBS staff will answer your question correctly and thoroughly. Why? First, chances are the guy working at the shop has been there for 10+ years and has been riding mountain bikes since he learned to walk. The guy at Wally World was in lawn and garden the week before and couldn’t tell you the difference between a mountain bike and Harley Davidson. Next, the LBS is dedicated to service. They know if you’re not treated right, you’re going somewhere else. You feed these guys families. That’s why you get personalized service. The guy at WW knows that whether he’s sells you the wrong bike or give you the wrong information and pisses you off, as long as he shows up and goes through the motions he’s getting a check. Owners and employees of local business almost always have a passion for their craft. They love what they do and love making their customer happy. They care! So yeah, you’ll pay a bit more but you really do get what you pay for and a portion of every dollar goes right back into your local economy. Dollars spent at WW go to those billionaires running the place.

      I say have your bro wash some cars or mow some lawns and save a little more loot for the LBS. Ask them for last years models or used specials or even for lay-away or interest free financing. They want to work with you, trust me.

    • #86917

      It only matters if he plans on riding more than a couple times. A WW bike will not stand up to normal off-road abuse – mainly wheelset will crumble

      If he plans on doing any REAL mountain biking, then I would highly recommend you look into ebay or craigslist. $400 – $600 from your LBS will buy a glorified bike path bike.

      Bikes do not typically hold much value (with all the new technology every year) so you could get a great deal with good components at the best price. Just be careful about sizing….best to size yourself up at your LBS. Then buy accessories from them to keep them afloat.

    • #86918

      [url:2p1tuyev]http://www.recycled-cycles.com/[/url:2p1tuyev]
      I know, I know; Ft. Collins, CO is not anywhere close to you! But if you can find a used bicycle shop similar to this in your area, there can be great deals to be found. Not only can you find some nice rigs for a decent price, but they will have been inspected, maintained, and tuned.

    • #86919

      One of the bike shops near me has a bike swap early spring. maybe some place by you has that? I also agree with going with last years model, thats what i did, there was no difference in the year I bought and the new year, they just changed the name, so right there i saved some $.

    • #86920
      "nanook" wrote

      [url:30qfme9z]http://www.recycled-cycles.com/[/url:30qfme9z]
      I know, I know; Ft. Collins, CO is not anywhere close to you! But if you can find a used bicycle shop similar to this in your area, there can be great deals to be found. Not only can you find some nice rigs for a decent price, but they will have been inspected, maintained, and tuned.

      Sorry – have to disagree. While the idea is great, they are incredibly overpriced. Even tho I live less than 3 miles from the store I would rather shop on-line. Sure, there are advantages to bike fit and properly tuned but their savings over new is usually pretty miniscule.

    • #86921

      My suggestion would be to sell your bike to your bro. It’s a great upgrade in components from any thing he would get at entry level. Plus, he may not even like it. Don’t mention that it’s a lie. And then go to a local bike shop. It’s good Karma, you can’t put a price on that. 😃

    • #86922

      There’s no reason $600 bucks can’t get you a decent, entry level mountain bike.

      Like the previous poster said, check your LBS for specials, previous year leftovers, or even used rentals.

      And yes, brand does matter. I bought my Specialized Rockhopper 5 years ago when it was one year old. Several thousand miles later I still ride it to work and I have upgraded and repaired very little on it.

      My current Giant has taken me all over Colorado and to Moab twice, still with nothing more than routine maintenance and adjustment.

      Wallyworld bikes do not hold up like this, trust me. My wife had one and it was the worst piece of crap I ever spent hard-earned money on.

    • #86923
      "Inertia" wrote

      My suggestion would be to sell your bike to your bro. It’s a great upgrade in components from any thing he would get at entry level. Plus, he may not even like it. Don’t mention that it’s a lie. And then go to a local bike shop. It’s good Karma, you can’t put a price on that. 😃

      If i had extra money to spend on getting a new one i may consider it, in all honesty i never wanna part with my bike, i worked my ass off for it and work my ass of on it! its a starter bike i think but she hasnt let me down yet but i do plan on getting him a bike that needs a little upgrading and selling him MY old components when i upgrade.

      I’ve been keeping an eye out on craigslist and have found some sweet deals, anyone know anything about Trek police bikes?

    • #86924

      Trek 4300 was rated as one of the best buys for this years model by either MB action or Bike magazine in their latest issue.

      Depending on how little your brother is, (growth wise) I’d say craigslist the old bike, have your parents get him a bike in his own size and he’ll enjoy it alot more. I rode a 21" for years and suffered until I stepped down to a 19.5 frame. Yoda might know alot about the Force but size does matter.

    • #86925

      Brand matters big time. I was riding a Walmart POS Mongoose for several years before I got my first real bike. The difference was night and day. Once I got a decent bike I really started enjoying riding instead of just riding to ride. I picked up a 2009 Cannondale F7 that retails new for around $700 out the door tax included for $475 with 25 miles on it. Turned around 6 months later and sold it for $400, it was still in flawless shape when I sold it. I got my best friend into mountain Biking this year and he picked up a really nice 2008 Trek 6000 for $250 on Craigslist.

      Look on Ebay and Craigslist. You can find some really sweet deals. A used reputable brand name bike that was taken care of is going to be way better than a brand new anything from Walmart. Good luck!

    • #86926

      My Jamis ran me 600.00 new and it’s held up great so far. Stay away from WallyWorld type stores.

    • #86927

      I spend the extra $ for a brand. but I buy used so it’s not nearly as bad

    • #86928

      Stay away from the Big Box stores, buy online or local which ever suits you and your budget. I am a big fan of buying online. Just got DT Swiss X 455 XC Disc Rim, Hope 2 Hubs, laced with DT swiss for less than 300. I had enought left over of my 400 budget that I got some extras and still didn’t spend $400.00.

      I also use Pricepoint.com, and Jensonusa.com.

    • #86929

      is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

    • #86930
      "FBTrek321" wrote

      is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      Both Schwinn and Mongoose which are known as walmart brands also have higher end bikes which compare to other big brands.

    • #86931

      you check out schwinn’s and mongoose’s higher end bikes on thier website.

    • #86932

      im a big believer in the saying "You get what you pay for"
      and that really applys to this sport i would look into the hard rock lineup from specialized

    • #86933

      Or step up to the Rockhopper…

    • #86934

      Specialized is nothing special 😃

      Get more props on the trail for riding something you dont see everyday, than just another mass produced Specialized…

    • #86935

      when does getting props on the trail having anything to do with a quailty bike yes specialized is a very popular bike but they are that way for a reason they make a great product that works great and i would rather have that than say a yeti just to have some one drooling over my bike

    • #86936
      "Vtolds" wrote

      Specialized is nothing special 😃

      Get more props on the trail for riding something you dont see everyday, than just another mass produced Specialized…

      Says the guy riding the Pricepoint House Brand…

    • #86937

      cjm

      Gotta chime in for specialized on this one. Definitely something special. The question to ask is, "How many new Specialized do you see?" Most of them you see on the trail have been ridden hard an put up wet for years. I love me some style, but I’ll take longevity over style any day. Spesh still has a sense of style, too.

    • #86938
      "FBTrek321" wrote

      is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      Schwinn used to rock some high quality hardtails sold via the LBS.

      But no longer.

      As long as you are dealing with a LBS and not a big box store, and you are looking at entry level bikes, the brand name of the bike matters less than the customer service you experience at the shop you buy from.

      I’d rather buy a $600 Diamondback Aluminum Hardtail from a LBS that will give me good service than $600 AL Hardtail Trek, Specialized, Giant etc…. from a LBS with poor customer service.

      At the $600 price level, there is going to very little difference among the bikes of the same class (ie…AL hardtails with a front shock).

    • #86939
      "maddslacker" wrote

      [quote="Vtolds":2m38fa6m]Specialized is nothing special 😃

      Get more props on the trail for riding something you dont see everyday, than just another mass produced Specialized…

      Says the guy riding the Pricepoint House Brand…[/quote:2m38fa6m]

      Nothing wrong with riding a "house brand".

      Not knocking Specialized, but I give people props for some individuality on the trail. I can look at my bike and truly say it is 1 of a kind of something different than a LBS bought mass produced bike.

      Yeah my bike is built around a mass produced frame, but thats the only thing, and I even modified that.

      I could just be another guy riding a Hard Rock, instead I ride something completely different that people dont see everyday.

    • #86940
      "Vtolds" wrote

      Not knocking Specialized, but I give people props for some individuality on the trail. I can look at my bike and truly say it is 1 of a kind of something different than a LBS bought mass produced bike.

      Yeah my bike is built around a mass produced frame, but thats the only thing, and I even modified that.

      I could just be another guy riding a Hard Rock, instead I ride something completely different that people dont see everyday.

      No one at the trail cares what bike you ride but you. The guy on a Hardrock (or any mass produced entry level bike) can have just as much fun as everyone else. As long as it fits, and it’s functional, that’s all that matters.

      Stay away from department stores. The bikes suck, and are usually not properly put together. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen forks on backwards, bars not tightened all the way, brake pads that don’t even come in contact with the rim/disc, etc. Support your local bike shop, especially if they support the local scene. Find out which shops in your area are IMBA members, and start there.

    • #86941
      "dgaddis" wrote

      [quote="Vtolds":hcosbfa2]Not knocking Specialized, but I give people props for some individuality on the trail. I can look at my bike and truly say it is 1 of a kind of something different than a LBS bought mass produced bike.

      Yeah my bike is built around a mass produced frame, but thats the only thing, and I even modified that.

      I could just be another guy riding a Hard Rock, instead I ride something completely different that people dont see everyday.

      No one at the trail cares what bike you ride but you. The guy on a Hardrock (or any mass produced entry level bike) can have just as much fun as everyone else. As long as it fits, and it’s functional, that’s all that matters.
      [/quote:hcosbfa2]

      Yeah, who cares what brand you ride? If you can throwdown, or leave everyone else in the dust…. that’s what matters. If you are choking on dust from the guys wheel that just passed you, I don’t care if you’re riding a $9,000 Cannondale lefty.

    • #86942
      "FBTrek321" wrote

      is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      I have pre-Walmart Schwinns and love them. I think they are a great bike, but there are ones of lower quality also.

    • #86943
      "Funrover" wrote

      [quote="FBTrek321":3t7w8vqk]is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      I have pre-Walmart Schwinns and love them. I think they are a great bike, but there are ones of lower quality also.[/quote:3t7w8vqk]

      I REALLY hope Cannondale doesn’t go the way of Schwinn (world class to Wally World). Dorel says it wont but…we’ll see. They’ve already quit making a lot of the frames in the US and started getting them made overseas.

    • #86944
      "FBTrek321" wrote

      is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      Funny, when I was a kid (a long, long time ago), Schwinn was the bike in the Western Auto store that every kid dreamed about, but no one owned. That was before mountain bikes and mass produced 10 speeds from K-mart. We all rode single speeds back then, trend setters that we were and did not know it. 😆

      For an entry level mountain bike nowadays I would have to vote with the Specialized Hardrock, especially since I own one.

    • #86945
      "ChiliPepper" wrote

      [quote="dgaddis":1mw7vsuk]I REALLY hope Cannondale doesn’t go the way of Schwinn (world class to Wally World). Dorel says it wont but…we’ll see. They’ve already quit making a lot of the frames in the US and started getting them made overseas.

      The sad part is, the majority of bikes made now-a-days, being low-end to high-end are being manufactured overseas, especially the frames and components. To find the best built American made bike, you will pretty much have to locate a small company that builds the frames themselves, like Sinister for starters. As per the components go, I believe they are all manufactured overseas besides a small handful. Good ole USA innovation and product is merely a thing of the past my friends.[/quote:1mw7vsuk]

      Most of the design work is still done here in the US, it’s just the production that’s done over seas. It’s cheaper, and lets be honest, the quality is there.

      I don’t really get caught up in the USA vs Asia thing, but Cannondale’s getting outsourced show a change in philosophy of the company. I think some of their frames are still hade the USA, and they’ve always had some made over seas.

      Now, if I was split between two bikes, couldn’t decide which I wanted, but one was made in the USA – that’s the one I’d get.

    • #86946

      As a person that rides an entry level bike (Giant Yukon) I do not see anything wrong with it. I have kept up with many folks that have better bikes, has been passed by many and pass many more with better bikes than mine. Big deal, I am still having fun. isn’t that what it’s about.

      Lucky for me I had two LBS that treated me well and picked the better feeling ride. I still shop at both locations.

    • #86947
      "brianW" wrote

      As a person that rides an entry level bike (Giant Yukon) I do not see anything wrong with it. I have kept up with many folks that have better bikes, has been passed by many and pass many more with better bikes than mine. Big deal, I am still having fun. isn’t that what it’s about.

      Lucky for me I had two LBS that treated me well and picked the better feeling ride. I still shop at both locations.

      Who said anything was wrong with it?

      I agree it is the rider, not the bike as far as speed goes.

      I’d agree with some others on here who said no one cares what brand someone else at the trail is riding.

    • #86948

      i went to walmart and got the FS mongoose with disc brakes. got it for $100 rode it for a while did what i needed it to but didn’t really like it. then i went to my LBS and got a specialized hardrock for around $500 and i still have and plan to keep disc brakes and this bike for a while

    • #86949
      "FBTrek321" wrote

      is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      Klunkerz!

    • #86950
      "F7Cannon" wrote

      [quote="FBTrek321":2r898hsj]is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      Klunkerz![/quote:2r898hsj]

      ?

    • #86951

      i rode a schwinnn on singletrack for a couple of weeks… and then i moved up to a giant

    • #86952
      "FBTrek321" wrote

      [quote="F7Cannon":ot5l57yr][quote="FBTrek321":ot5l57yr]is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      Klunkerz![/quote:ot5l57yr]

      ?[/quote:ot5l57yr]

      i think hes talking about the old WWII schwinn balloon tire bikes that they were riding in marin county at the start of mtn. biking or hes talking about the movie that talks about the begining of mtn. biking. 😃

    • #86953
      "trailrider247" wrote

      [quote="FBTrek321":14hqec49][quote="F7Cannon":14hqec49][quote="FBTrek321":14hqec49]is schwinn a good brand? i always thought they were walmart bikes…

      Klunkerz![/quote:14hqec49]

      ?[/quote:14hqec49]

      i think hes talking about the old WWII schwinn balloon tire bikes that they were riding in marin county at the start of mtn. biking or hes talking about the movie that talks about the begining of mtn. biking. 😃[/quote:14hqec49]

      yes 💡 💡 💡

    • #86954

      I find it some what entertaining reading about all the views on entry level "brands". At this level a good comparison can be drawn to car tires. For the most part they are all made at the same factory. Over the last decade the bike industry has become homogenized, with Trek buying up most brands. Other than figuring what type of material your frame is made out of, steel,aluminum, etc., I would concentrate more on what components come with your bike of choice. Try to make your purchase choice based on the bike with the most quality components. Then figure out what you might need/want to upgrade down the road, because lets face it, we all love to upgrade our rigs.

      BUT… I think it’s more important to get a really shiny helmet with flames on it. Nothing says pro like that on the trails. 😆

    • #86955
      "Inertia" wrote

      I find it some what entertaining reading about all the views on entry level "brands". At this level a good comparison can be drawn to car tires. For the most part they are all made at the same factory. Over the last decade the bike industry has become homogenized, with Trek buying up most brands. Other than figuring what type of material your frame is made out of, steel,aluminum, etc., I would concentrate more on what components come with your bike of choice. Try to make your purchase choice based on the bike with the most quality components. Then figure out what you might need/want to upgrade down the road, because lets face it, we all love to upgrade our rigs.

      BUT… I think it’s more important to get a really shiny helmet with flames on it. Nothing says pro like that on the trails. 😆

      Yes we do like to upgrade. My bike is in a constant evolution. At some point the parts on my bike will dwarf the frame and I will have to upgrade that. LOL I have a 80 dollar frame with a 400 dollar fork, and soon to be coming DT swiss 455 wheels with Hope Pro2 Hubs 😮

    • #86956
      "Inertia" wrote

      Over the last decade the bike industry has become homogenized, with Trek buying up most brands. Other than figuring what type of material your frame is made out of, steel,aluminum, etc., I would concentrate more on what components come with your bike of choice. Try to make your purchase choice based on the bike with the most quality components. Then figure out what you might need/want to upgrade down the road, because lets face it, we all love to upgrade our rigs.

      BUT… I think it’s more important to get a really shiny helmet with flames on it. Nothing says pro like that on the trails. 😆

      Since when did Trek buy up other brands? They own Gary Fisher, that’s it I think.

      Most frames are made in the same few factories however. Giant is the largest frame producer, making frames for lots of other big brands, and some of the smaller boutique brands as well (including Niner I think, not 100% positive on that though). Giant even produces their own aluminum in their own foundry. There’s one other really big factory/company making frames for several other companies…I can’t remember who it is. It might be Trek.

    • #86957

      Martec and Merida are the other big Taiwanese manufacturers.

      As for Trek:
      Trek, Gary Fisher, Bontrager, Klein and until recently, LeMond Racing Cycles.
      They also acquired Villiger, a Swiss bicycle company, and Diamant, the oldest bicycle company in Germany.

      As for me, I prefer my Giant frame to say ‘Giant’ on it. 😉

    • #86958

      best way to go is take your bother to wally world see if they will let him ride the mongoose where he can really see how it feels(if possible outside of coarse)then go to your LBS and just look in your(parents)price range and i’m sure they will insist he ride as many as he can handle till he finds one. 😃 as i will bet everyone that he rides he WILL like MORE than the mongoose. it doesn’t matter the name of the bike but the place you get it. as for LBS bikes you get a year of free tune on your bike. lets say he gets the bike hits a jump goes higher than planed and hits the ground hard enough to break spokes,warp both wheels,pop seat off and break a pedal as i did 6 months after my purchase and they for some reason charged me $10 but i got a better seat post and everything else got unwarped and respoked so i was happy. 😆

    • #86959

      cjm

      Inertia,

      I disagree with much of your post.

      You said > For the most part they are all made at the same factory.
      This is irrelevant as each frame company delivers different design specifications to the manufacturer. This is true even at the entry level. Further, Bike shop brands tend to have more reputable components. There’s also that quality assurance thing.

      You said > Over the last decade the bike industry has become homogenized,
      I couldn’t disagree more. Each bike company has determined its own master geometry and frame angles. These small changes greatly affect the durability, comfort, and performance of the frames. DH bikes have dropped nearly 10lbs in weight over the last five years. The method is partly: smarter application of physics and metallurgy in frames. These changes make it down to entry level bikes.

      You said > with Trek buying up most brands.
      There are more bike brands available today than 10 years ago. Agreed, few of these brands are in the entry level market. Trek did purchase Fisher. However, the to companies still make rather different bikes, even at entry level.

      You said > we all love to upgrade our rigs.
      Probably not so at the entry level. Most posters on forums, such as singletracks, are likely bike geeks. They are passed, or will soon pass, entry level. That doesn’t count the hundreds of people who read these forums and never post. These are the people reading this thread seeking advise on an MTB purchase, and not an entertaining argument. Likely, they will never upgrade their rigs.

      Further, you don’t address how a Local Bike Shop or a brand, such as Trek or Specialized, support their product. I warn people away even from many high dollar boutique brands, such as Astrix, because the don’t support their product. Big players like Trek, Giant, and Specialized might not provide the best customer service on the market, but they don’t embarrass themselves either. Support is probably equally important to the product itself, especially in the entry level market. When the Mongoose purchased at Wal-Mart breaks, most people are left with scrap metal. If an entry level GT brakes, a visit to Performance Bikes will generally have it repaired for free.

    • #86960
      "cjm" wrote

      Inertia,
      This is true even at the entry level. Further, Bike shop brands tend to have more reputable components.

      Disagree just with this Part. Yeah LBS bikes have obviously better quality parts than say a bike bought a walmart. But if you buy a bike online at a place like Jenson USA, Price Point, Bikes Direct, Chain Reaction Cycles, and ect. The components on the bikes sold online are exactly the same as the ones you buy at a LBS. There is honestly no different between a Avid X.7 Drivetrain on a LBS bike, and one bought online…only difference is the frame manufacturer and the way it is bought.

    • #86961

      i agree that most online bike shops have the same quality componets as a LBS bike but i think thats because most online bike shops are a LBS. i think when he was talking about "Bike shop brands" he was talking about brand names like Specialized that only sell their bikes at a LBS and no where else.

      [size=84:1zlvbjnk]FYI Jenson USA and Chain Reaction Cycles are both a LBS with online stores.[/size:1zlvbjnk]

    • #86962

      cjm

      Vtolds;

      I am not sure where you are disagreeing. The point was, the irrelevance of which factory produced the frame. If your point is that better components can reduce the impact of frame quality, I think that means we agree.

      Also, I used the word tend, for a very real reason. Many people wouldn’t consider Transition a brand name bike. If you order a complete Transition, the build uses after market parts vs. the OEM parts the come with bikes from the big boys. Anyone who has been wrenching bikes for a while knows many after market parts are superior to their OEM siblings.

      My point here, has nothing to do with method of purchase. Indeed, I make most of my purchases online. I speak to that later in the post.

      Perhaps it’s the term "bike shop brand." I meant that as the inverse of bikes sold at Sears, Wal-Mart, and Target.

    • #86963
      "cjm" wrote

      Inertia,

      I disagree with much of your post.

      You said > For the most part they are all made at the same factory.
      This is irrelevant as each frame company delivers different design specifications to the manufacturer. This is true even at the entry level. Further, Bike shop brands tend to have more reputable components. There’s also that quality assurance
      You said > Over the last decade the bike industry has become homogenized,
      I couldn’t disagree more. Each bike company has determined its own master geometry and frame angles. These small changes greatly affect the durability, comfort, and performance of the frames. DH bikes have dropped nearly 10lbs in weight over the last five years. The method is partly: smarter application of physics and metallurgy in frames. These changes make it down to entry level bikes.

      You said > with Trek buying up most brands.
      There are more bike brands available today than 10 years ago. Agreed, few of these brands are in the entry level market. Trek did purchase Fisher. However, the to companies still make rather different bikes, even at entry level.

      You said > we all love to upgrade our rigs.
      Probably not so at the entry level. Most posters on forums, such as singletracks, are likely bike geeks. They are passed, or will soon pass, entry level. That doesn’t count the hundreds of people who read these forums and never post. These are the people reading this thread seeking advise on an MTB purchase, and not an entertaining argument. Likely, they will never upgrade their rigs.

      Further, you don’t address how a Local Bike Shop or a brand, such as Trek or Specialized, support their product. I warn people away even from many high dollar boutique brands, such as Astrix, because the don’t support their product. Big players like Trek, Giant, and Specialized might not provide the best customer service on the market, but they don’t embarrass themselves either. Support is probably equally important to the product itself, especially in the entry level market. When the Mongoose purchased at Wal-Mart breaks, most people are left with scrap metal. If an entry level GT brakes, a visit to Performance Bikes will generally have it repaired for free.

      I feel that you think I lean towards the smell of walmart. You could not be more wrong. My point is that at entry level, speaking of bikes like Trek, GF, GT, Specialized, etc., the frames will be of equal quaility. The important thing to look for is what components are put on the bike. Previous posts would speak specificly to one brand being better than another (again, among bikes at LBS). I am merely suggesting that after one gets fit for a bike size and decides on what type of material the frame is made of, the next most imortant thing will be components. And these components will vary greater than the differences of the said bikes (again, not Walcrap, I would only suggest going to an LBS). I actually agree with you on the growth of technology during the last decade, but I don’t think that is what I was talking about.

    • #86964

      http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

      Somebody had to do it… 😼

    • #86965

      cjm

      "Previous posts would speak specificly to one brand being better than another"

      Which posts in this thread? A few posters have purchased bikes and said they enjoyed them. I couldn’t find a single poster presuming their entry level bike was specifically better than another. There was a blip where Vtolds injected that Specialized weren’t that special. Most of us, many who don’t ride Specialized, disagreed. Indeed, Specialized has a track record at all sales levels indicating they are special. More so than Trek, Giant, or Iron Horse? Probably not and nobody made that claim.

      Is Specialized better than Sette? Probably, but the basis of that is in history. Even if Sette and Specialized are built in the same factory, the bikes bear different design specifications. Sette doesn’t have the time on trail or the track record of supporting their customers to compete with Specialized, right now. Especially, regarding entry level dollars. Ten years from now, Sette could prove to be a real champ. Until then I would push people, purchasing an entry level bike, to a reputable brand, with support from the local bike shop.

      What about Specialized and other lesser-known brands? I don’t ride any major player’s bikes. I ride Transitions. I purchased my first Tranny (Vagrant Hardtail) in 2005. I was rewarded handsomely for my purchase. I am giddy every time I ride my Preston, Vagrant, or Blindside (Okay, the Blindside still frightens me in corners). Tranny hasn’t missed. I also purchased an Astrix Stryke. The frame burned me every possible way. The frames resale value was zero, maintenance was an epic struggle, and customer support was nonexistent. Granted, neither of those companies makes entry level frames. However, it points to the gambling nature of supporting new or exotic brands. You might pay a few more dollars for a Trek, Specialized, or Cannondale, but there’s little risk.

      EDIT: Uhgg Typos

    • #86966
      "cjm" wrote

      "Previous posts would speak specificly to one brand being better than another"

      Which posts in this thread? A few posters have purchased bikes and said they enjoyed them. I couldn’t find a single poster presuming their entry level bike was specifically better than another. There was a blip where Vtolds injected that Specialized weren’t that special.

      Well, I feel I should include a bibliography in the end of my posts for you. I don’t feel like calling people out, but I went back thru the posts, you can focus on page 2. After briefly looking, I’ve found 5 references to the purchase of a specific bike or a negative reference to brand like schwinn, mongoose, and specialized. Aslo there is a reference to purchasing a dback over trek as a better choice. CJM, I think we are 80% on the same page by now, not that we need to be. I hope I’ve cleared up any concerns on my post. My point still stands that at entry level, the biggest difference you will find in comparable bikes will be the components, and the service you will get from one LBS over another. That’s it.

    • #86967

      inertia- you seem to be totally off topic and simply looking for an argument. no one has said that you have to buy and brand cuz they were better when i asked the question i asked what people thought was better and why.

      i wanted to know what bikes people had ridden and what they liked best, how can one answer that question without saying a specific brand? the title of htis topic is "brand name?" so it makes sense that that is the focus…

      now i know there was someone who said buy a Dback over a trek, but i believe that the reasoning was that of the two which both have nearly the same frames made of the 6061Aluminum the Dback came with better components for the bike.

      the question being asked was what people’s favorite brand was and why, so why are you jumping on people when they are voicing their opinion?

      to everyone else thanks for all the info you guys rock!

    • #86968

      I’m late to the party but this topic interests me. I entered the sport with a FS Mongoose right off the Wal-Mart rack. Two years later after breaking two rear sprockets (the bike lingo escapes me here) and a derailur I upgraded to a Gary Fisher hardtail from a LBS. Pacific Cycle replaced the components for free but the Mongoose is heavy and still broke under mediocre riding. I am in no way hardcore. For the most part I liked the Goose but it is inferior weight and component wise to my GF. I love my GF, my wife loves her used Jamis, my daughter loves her Trek and my other daughter loves her used GF
      I assume by now your brother has a bike and I’d be interested to know what he chose and how he likes it so far

      Cheers

    • #86969

      I started on a wal mart mongoose hardtail and ended up putting over a grand into components to upgrade it.The only thing I didn’t change was the crank set.It got me through several thousand miles of trails and the only reason I sold it was my then recent purchase of a 2001 K2 Disco Monkey..

      [url:247jkytn]http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2001&Brand=K2&Model=Disco+Monkey&Type=bike[/url:247jkytn]

      …because I wanted a a FS bike.I rode the disco monkey for around 2-3 years and then quit riding basically and sold the ‘Monkey.Last year I got back into riding when a friend bought a new Wal Mart Mongoose and gave me his older one.I rode that sub $200 bike for a few months and got some odd looks at the trail as you’ll get on cheaper bikes but I still had fun.It’s not like my "born again noob" skills on a bike are too much for it,the bike was fine on technical trails and small 1 foot drops.

      Being more of a freeride style rider than XC,I didn’t feel quite right laid out over the bike and since I had just got my girlfriend a used Giant XTC2 I wanted something a little nicer.I had a used Santa Cruz Bullit frame I was looking at and planning to get and I went to a LBS looking for a bike for my girlfriends son and saw an old Wal Mart Mongoose Blackcomb that someone brought in for service and never picked up.It went up for sale the next day for $80 and I test rode it and loved the feel and brought it home.

      I rode it for a month and loved the feel but it was still a Wal Mart Mongoose and I wanted something better.I saw and test rode a 09 Jamis Parker at another LBS and it took over my thoughts for awhile so when I had the cash for it I went and rode it again and decided the Wal-Mart Blackcomb actually felt better.Now,not the brakes and suspension of course…those felt wonderful,but the frame size was wrong and no matter how good the rest of the bike felt,I couldn’t pull the trigger on the purchase because of the frame size.It was a demo bike and the only one they had at an extreme discount so a different frame size was not an option if you wondered about that.

      I’m not trying to force my opinions on anyone but I thought I’d share my experiences with Wal Mart Mongoose bikes.There’s one point we can all agree on, that if the bike doesn’t fit you,you will have a hard time riding it the right way and it can be unsafe.

      Since I’ve bought the blackcomb for $80,I’ve spent about $300 replacing the stem,forks,bars,grips,and shifters. I’ve beat the piss out of it and need to true up the wheels but it’s holding up well so far.The derailleur and hanger got a bit screwed up this weekend but its been replaced and is back in working order.

      I still am in search of a longer travel FR frame though, that all the components I have purchased can go on. I’m in now way completely content with the Wal Mart bike…but I’m out riding!

      Image

    • #86970

      JDH

      I found in looking for a MTB that the best thing to do is:

      1. Figure out how much you can spend.

      2. Figure out what kind of riding and trails you plan to be on.

      3. Pick a kind of bike (All Mountain, XC, DH and so on) that will meet your needs. This can mean going to your LBS or even a "Box store" and ride as many different bikes as you can and make a list of which bikes you loved, liked, hated. Rate the bike you loved.

      4. Shop shop shop and shop some more. Craigslist, LBS (sales of older models), Pawn shops, news paper, E-bay, garage sales and so on.

      5. Have the money ready so when you find one of the bikes you loved that will meet your needs you can pull the trigger and not miss out.

    • #86971

      Sharp Blackcomb GALAXY. Considered it before getting the Mongoose XR250. The Blackcombs wheelbase was a bit short for my long legs and I could almost touch my wrists with my knee while pedaling. I still ride it along with my Fisher. As for odd looks on the trail, I thought it was the wrinkles and gray hair…..

    • #86972

      Thanks Quazii,it’s gettin me out on the trails at least and having a bit more fun than on the XR-200 I WAS riding last year.That being said,would I have more fun on a higher quality freeride bike? Yes,but if I had to use a number,I would guess something like 20% more fun.There isn’t much I can’t hit on that bike and once my skills catch up I’m sure I’ll think differently but it works for now.

      If you decide to get a Wal Mart bike,make sure you’re not opposed to learning to be a mechanic as well,derailleurs will need adjusted,rims will get slightly bent and need trued and in my case you may need to re pack bearings with grease.Learning all of this is a good thing but if you plan to never do more than change a tube,the service you’d get from a LBS would almost be necessary.

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